Popular in Arts and Humanities

Arts and Humanities

Titus Quinctius Flamininus’ “Italian triumph”

McGill University Michael Fronda

Arts and Humanities

Lincoln and the Jews

Brandeis University Jonathan Sarna

Arts and Humanities

Amputations and Convalescence

University of Western Australia Emily Brink

Art

Drawing on the past: Palladio, his precursors and knowledge of ancient architecture

University of Birmingham David Hemsoll

Art

Language, Sound, and Image in Wallace Berman’s Aleph, 1956–1966

University of San Diego Chelsea Behle Fralick

Arts and Humanities

Early Modern Natural Law Theories

University of Copenhagen Knud Haakonssen

Leave While the Party’s Good

View more insights in Arts and Humanities - Books - History - Sports History

View more figures from Independent Scholar

View the page of Lee C. Kluck

Read the Study

· Tools Cite Embed

Lee C. Kluck tells the full and colorful story of Harry Dalton, many consider the first modern baseball executive.

Image courtesy of interviewee. August 21, 2024

Log-in or Sign-up to Faculti
Currently viewing this subject insight as a guest. You have insight(s) remaining for this month.

Workspace

Faculti AI is thinking...

< >

Summary
Related Studies
Faculti AI
Key Points
Key Quotes
Translate
Transcript

Export as PDF

This video is a transcript of an interview with Lee, who discusses his book about Harry Dalton, a prominent figure in Major League Baseball. The interview begins with the date and setting, and Lee explains his motivations for writing the book, which include his personal fandom for the Milwaukee Brewers and a desire to engage with his history degree after experiencing a significant health issue.

Lee delves into Harry Dalton’s life, highlighting his journey from a sports writer and military officer to becoming a successful baseball executive. Dalton is recognized for revolutionizing the role of the general manager in baseball, focusing on team building and specialization in talent evaluation. He is credited with significant trades that brought key players to teams, contributing to their success, especially with the Baltimore Orioles and Milwaukee Brewers.

Throughout the interview, Lee emphasizes Dalton's collaborative management style, his positive interactions with players, and his contributions to the sport that extend beyond winning—such as improving player welfare during crises like the cocaine problem in the 1980s.

The discussion also touches on Dalton's legacy, with Lee arguing that he should be considered for the Hall of Fame due to his substantial impact on the game and the careers he helped shape. Overall, the interview serves to highlight the importance of Dalton's influence in modern baseball and the values he represented as an executive.

Language:

Export as PDF

X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

00:00.205 --> 00:05.045
I am a huge Milwaukee Brewer fan, which, for those in,

00:05.985 --> 00:08.045
in, on your side of the pond, might,

00:08.255 --> 00:10.085
might not be too familiar,

00:10.225 --> 00:12.765
but it's an American baseball team in Wisconsin.

00:13.865 --> 00:16.145
And, they are,

00:17.005 --> 00:19.225
it's my home state.

00:19.685 --> 00:21.865
And Harry Dalton built some of the teams

00:21.935 --> 00:23.905
that I watched growing up.

00:25.295 --> 00:29.435
And I thought, Hey, why were these teams good?

00:29.435 --> 00:32.475
Because I knew that they were gonna start having financial

00:32.475 --> 00:36.415
trouble, as the, as the nineties

00:37.255 --> 00:41.845
progressed, you know, there,

00:42.095 --> 00:45.965
there wasn't a situation where they had a lot of money

00:46.105 --> 00:48.685
to invest in players and things like that.

00:48.705 --> 00:49.965
And it became a real problem.

00:50.785 --> 00:53.205
And I thought, why was this team good for as long as it was?

00:53.205 --> 00:55.285
And the answer I came up with was Harry Dalton.

00:56.005 --> 00:59.505
And so I thought, okay, this is, this might be worth a,

00:59.705 --> 01:00.745
a look to see.

01:01.685 --> 01:05.795
Um, and the other, the other reason honestly was,

01:06.175 --> 01:10.815
at the time I was working a, a nine to five, like,

01:10.995 --> 01:13.985
everyone generally has to,

01:14.285 --> 01:17.425
and, I have a master's degree in history.

01:17.425 --> 01:22.145
And I, I wanted to find a way to keep myself engaged,

01:22.415 --> 01:23.865
with my degree.

01:25.525 --> 01:27.425
And, something about me, I,

01:27.545 --> 01:28.985
I had a heart attack about halfway

01:28.985 --> 01:30.185
through my master's program.

01:31.065 --> 01:32.425
I was 28 years old.

01:33.605 --> 01:37.905
Um, so for me, I,

01:39.985 --> 01:42.905
I really wanted to use my degree.

01:43.805 --> 01:46.305
So that's, that was sort of the motivation behind it.

01:46.445 --> 01:50.065
And, and, you know, a lot of it had to do with, I thought

01:50.065 --> 01:51.825
that Harry was worth the treatment.

01:52.685 --> 01:55.545
Um, one of the things we study in baseball history more now

01:55.645 --> 01:58.505
is, is how teams are built

01:59.005 --> 02:01.665
and the cultures behind different organizations.

02:02.105 --> 02:06.955
I think the research is a combination of,

02:07.705 --> 02:09.635
it's very primary source heavy.

02:10.215 --> 02:14.945
Um, I use the, the Dalton papers, which are at the,

02:15.205 --> 02:17.265
national Baseball Hall of Fame

02:17.405 --> 02:19.265
and Museum in Cooperstown, New York.

02:20.635 --> 02:22.975
Um, which was great

02:22.975 --> 02:25.575
because it had, you know, you don't think

02:25.575 --> 02:28.855
that the memo you write to your boss may someday be a,

02:29.195 --> 02:31.895
be a historical piece of evidence, right?

02:31.995 --> 02:34.215
But, you know, there was all that stuff

02:34.595 --> 02:39.585
and, Harry saved a lot.

02:39.935 --> 02:43.185
That was just really, you know, in his family when,

02:43.215 --> 02:48.025
when Harry died in 2005, his family donated a lot of his,

02:48.805 --> 02:52.065
ephemera to, to the Hall of Fame.

02:52.245 --> 02:57.095
So, beyond that,

02:57.515 --> 03:01.445
the primary sources were sources, newspaper articles, if,

03:01.445 --> 03:05.365
if, if a newspaper article got written by about Harry Dalton

03:06.345 --> 03:10.205
in, in 40 plus odd years, I probably read it.

03:11.235 --> 03:14.335
Um, and then of course, you know, there's the, the, the,

03:14.955 --> 03:18.015
hey, what's been written about team building,

03:18.155 --> 03:21.295
in baseball, what's been written about Harry Dalton,

03:22.155 --> 03:25.045
you know, this what we call historiography.

03:25.955 --> 03:27.775
Uh, going through that and, and,

03:28.115 --> 03:29.855
and making sure that, you know,

03:29.885 --> 03:31.455
what I cover is different than

03:31.455 --> 03:32.455
what other people have covered,

03:33.155 --> 03:36.785
or that it ends a, puts it in a new light.

03:37.965 --> 03:42.135
Um, and, and that research portion took,

03:43.185 --> 03:45.365
you know, it took me about seven years to write the book,

03:45.385 --> 03:49.785
and it probably, that research portion took about five

03:49.845 --> 03:53.345
of those, you know, f four or five of those years.

03:53.525 --> 03:57.875
So, that's, that, that was the,

03:58.255 --> 04:00.035
the sort of the research methodology.

04:00.475 --> 04:03.515
I consider Harry to be the first modern baseball executive

04:03.515 --> 04:06.875
because it has his style of management.

04:08.675 --> 04:13.165
Um, prior to that, general managers, as they're called 'em,

04:13.365 --> 04:14.445
baseball, were generalists.

04:15.675 --> 04:18.765
They dealt with team building, they dealt with media,

04:18.915 --> 04:22.365
they dealt with concessions, they dealt with everything.

04:24.045 --> 04:28.425
Um, post Harry Dalton, I would argue that

04:29.005 --> 04:31.185
the number one job of the general manager

04:32.125 --> 04:34.025
was building a winning team.

04:35.725 --> 04:39.345
You know, you, you start to get specific, specialization

04:41.045 --> 04:43.025
in these other areas where you're going, okay,

04:43.025 --> 04:45.585
you're gonna handle media, you are gonna handle this.

04:45.925 --> 04:48.025
I'm going to handle putting a winning team on the field.

04:49.165 --> 04:50.425
Um, and,

04:50.645 --> 04:54.785
and I think that was, you know, that is,

04:54.975 --> 04:59.005
that is why I call 'em the first modern baseball executive.

04:59.665 --> 05:03.565
Um, and I think he has a lot in common with,

05:03.995 --> 05:08.435
with the 21st Century executive.

05:09.405 --> 05:11.895
It's a very, his his style was

05:11.895 --> 05:16.505
very collaborative.

05:17.525 --> 05:20.225
Um, you know, he took, he took opinions from everybody.

05:20.455 --> 05:21.665
Some people would write books

05:21.665 --> 05:23.745
and you find out that the person you're writing about was

05:23.745 --> 05:25.985
really good at their job, but not a very good human being.

05:27.585 --> 05:30.885
Um, but Harry was

05:31.595 --> 05:33.285
genuinely a good person.

05:33.285 --> 05:34.365
Everybody I talked to,

05:34.365 --> 05:37.045
the first thing they told me was he was one

05:37.045 --> 05:39.365
of the best people they ever dealt with.

05:40.535 --> 05:41.995
He was willing to help anyone.

05:42.135 --> 05:45.355
He was willing to, you know, he was very sympathetic.

05:45.635 --> 05:49.555
I think, his approach to managing players

05:49.695 --> 05:51.555
and things was very 21st century.

05:51.695 --> 05:56.135
And the fact that he didn't see them as chattel,

05:57.325 --> 06:01.065
Baseball, and I can't remember.

06:01.175 --> 06:03.815
I've read some on the labor,

06:04.085 --> 06:05.575
battles in football in England,

06:05.595 --> 06:09.215
but, up until the 1970s,

06:09.315 --> 06:10.615
if a player was signed

06:10.835 --> 06:12.855
or drafted by a major league baseball team,

06:12.855 --> 06:17.305
they were pretty much linked to that team for the perpetual,

06:17.645 --> 06:18.825
for the length of their career.

06:20.355 --> 06:23.915
Um, that meant that you didn't have

06:23.915 --> 06:25.115
to treat the players very well.

06:26.085 --> 06:29.525
But it, he, he did.

06:29.865 --> 06:31.805
And as time changed, he changed.

06:32.305 --> 06:33.765
So it was a very good person,

06:34.265 --> 06:38.205
and I think that that gave him a lot of cr

06:40.825 --> 06:42.425
I would say today, street cred with,

06:42.455 --> 06:43.905
with the people that he worked with.

06:44.085 --> 06:45.385
You will have the general manager,

06:45.485 --> 06:47.425
and under that there will be two branches.

06:47.435 --> 06:49.505
There will be the scouting department

06:50.555 --> 06:52.255
and the player development department,

06:52.705 --> 06:55.825
which the player development department is.

06:56.085 --> 07:00.795
Um, you know, in England, I'll,

07:00.795 --> 07:02.275
I'll use an analogy again.

07:02.455 --> 07:04.795
In England, they have the under eighteens,

07:04.795 --> 07:07.155
the under fifteens, the, those types of things.

07:08.135 --> 07:09.795
Uh, major League Baseball,

07:09.795 --> 07:10.995
they have the minor league system.

07:11.655 --> 07:13.795
And so what they did were really good at,

07:14.375 --> 07:16.355
in his entire career, no matter where he went,

07:16.695 --> 07:18.555
was he surrounded himself with people

07:18.555 --> 07:20.035
that could evaluate talent.

07:21.635 --> 07:24.655
And then he also made sure that his system was stocked

07:24.805 --> 07:27.025
with coaches,

07:29.035 --> 07:32.725
and managers that understood

07:32.725 --> 07:35.525
that the team had an overarching philosophy

07:36.695 --> 07:38.995
and they would adhere to that philosophy.

07:39.175 --> 07:42.435
And each and every player was taught that way

07:43.025 --> 07:44.675
from the minute they got there

07:45.415 --> 07:47.355
to the minute they made the Major League team.

07:48.325 --> 07:52.585
And I think that's what made him very, successful even

07:52.605 --> 07:54.665
as the game changed around him.

07:54.835 --> 07:58.305
Perry was born in Massachusetts in 1928.

07:58.365 --> 07:59.425
He was an only child.

07:59.925 --> 08:04.665
Um, his father was a, salesman

08:05.605 --> 08:09.665
and worked for a sporting goods company,

08:11.295 --> 08:12.755
mainly dealt with hunting and fishing.

08:13.615 --> 08:16.835
Uh, Harry was a very intelligent, even as a kid,

08:16.835 --> 08:17.955
he was very intelligent.

08:18.015 --> 08:19.675
He was actually a member of Mensa.

08:20.635 --> 08:22.055
So he was, I mean,

08:22.475 --> 08:24.935
he literally would've probably been good at just about

08:25.175 --> 08:26.175
anything he wanted to do.

08:26.795 --> 08:29.095
Um, and he chose baseball, which, you know,

08:29.095 --> 08:30.295
that was, that was it.

08:30.395 --> 08:34.575
But he, he, originally was a sports writer,

08:35.195 --> 08:37.735
and he worked as a sports writer.

08:37.795 --> 08:39.015
And he had gone to college.

08:39.075 --> 08:42.415
He was an English major at Amherst in Massachusetts.

08:43.505 --> 08:47.315
Um, he was,

08:49.225 --> 08:50.805
an award-winning journalist.

08:50.905 --> 08:54.405
He got his sports writing was, was lauded at the university.

08:55.505 --> 08:59.605
Um, he got a job with the, Springfield newspaper.

08:59.605 --> 09:03.285
He was from West Springfield, Massachusetts,

09:03.295 --> 09:05.005
which is in Western Mass.

09:05.965 --> 09:10.455
And he, worked

09:10.475 --> 09:13.975
as a sports writer, and then the Korean War kicked off.

09:14.835 --> 09:18.405
Um, and he originally enlisted,

09:19.325 --> 09:21.905
he was a, he was a, he was a Cold War kid.

09:22.005 --> 09:24.905
He was a, he was a very firm believer in the fact

09:24.905 --> 09:27.465
that his generation would have to fight the conflicts

09:27.465 --> 09:29.945
that were born out of World War ii.

09:30.685 --> 09:34.625
And so his, his sort of mindset was very patriotic.

09:34.805 --> 09:36.225
And so he joined the Air Force

09:37.555 --> 09:40.695
and it quickly became apparent that this man

09:40.695 --> 09:44.495
who had enlisted in the Air Force was more officer material.

09:44.595 --> 09:47.215
So he was sent to Officer Candidate school

09:47.275 --> 09:52.005
and then worked as a PR person for the Air Force in Colorado

09:52.005 --> 09:53.005
before going to Korea.

09:53.145 --> 09:58.075
He had spent 36 months in, in Korea, writing

09:58.295 --> 10:00.675
for the, far East Air Force

10:02.315 --> 10:03.495
in, in Japan.

10:03.875 --> 10:07.825
And, and then he,

10:07.825 --> 10:09.905
when he got out of the Air Force,

10:10.125 --> 10:12.025
his parents had moved to Baltimore.

10:12.025 --> 10:14.225
His father had taken a job at a sporting goods

10:14.225 --> 10:15.905
store in Baltimore.

10:16.565 --> 10:20.785
And that was sort of how he ended up in Baltimore.

10:21.575 --> 10:23.875
Um, but yeah, that was his, his sort

10:23.875 --> 10:25.475
of pre baseball life to that point.

10:25.695 --> 10:27.875
He showed early in his career that he was a hustler,

10:28.735 --> 10:30.755
you know, that he was willing to work hard.

10:31.575 --> 10:32.955
He used his intelligence.

10:33.735 --> 10:38.575
He, he looked at the larger pictures around it, you know,

10:38.575 --> 10:40.375
he looked at how they did things.

10:40.635 --> 10:44.455
He looked at how the game was played, how the game was

10:45.455 --> 10:49.785
managed, and, and sort of prove it that way.

10:49.925 --> 10:52.265
And then, you know, he worked as the farm director.

10:52.525 --> 10:57.055
Um, he worked as the assistant farm director in,

10:57.125 --> 10:58.215
acquiring players

10:58.395 --> 11:01.635
and things, for the, for the minor league system.

11:02.925 --> 11:07.705
And then in 19, in the winter of 1965, he, he

11:08.515 --> 11:11.535
became the general manager of the Orioles.

11:12.285 --> 11:16.105
Um, and his, his defining work, I think, you know, he's,

11:16.175 --> 11:19.505
he's always sort of known at various stages in his career

11:19.765 --> 11:21.985
for the big trade, he was always sort of known

11:22.005 --> 11:23.065
as the big trade.

11:23.805 --> 11:28.065
So he, in Baltimore, for instance,

11:28.845 --> 11:32.625
his outgoing, his boss said, Hey, I traded

11:32.685 --> 11:37.065
for Frank Robinson, who was an already an MVP

11:37.765 --> 11:41.105
and would go on to win an MVP in Harry's first year

11:41.105 --> 11:42.865
as general manager when they won the World Series in

11:42.865 --> 11:47.785
Baltimore in 1966, when he would go to California,

11:48.075 --> 11:50.965
which his on the field in California,

11:50.965 --> 11:53.325
they weren't very good, but he traded for Nolan Ryan,

11:53.465 --> 11:55.365
who would go on to be a hall of Famer.

11:56.625 --> 12:00.685
Um, and in Milwaukee he traded for, Ted Simmons

12:01.105 --> 12:04.245
and Pete Vukovich and Raleigh Fingers.

12:05.105 --> 12:07.165
Uh, two of the three are Hall of Famers

12:07.905 --> 12:09.525
and award-winning players

12:09.705 --> 12:12.885
and got Milwaukee to their only World Series birth.

12:13.595 --> 12:16.975
So that was sort of his, his, you know, if, if people were

12:16.975 --> 12:18.735
to say, what do you remember Harry Dalton for?

12:19.915 --> 12:20.995
I think his work ethic.

12:21.415 --> 12:24.595
And, and also like I said, he was, he was sort of, they,

12:24.825 --> 12:26.915
they call him at one point, they called him traitor Dalton,

12:26.915 --> 12:30.195
because he was able to, to, to make these moves that sort

12:30.195 --> 12:32.545
of always worked for people.

12:32.725 --> 12:36.105
Fun is, you can't necessarily be measured just simply

12:36.285 --> 12:39.945
by team building In modern sports, we wanna look at winning

12:40.085 --> 12:42.385
as being the, the benchmark of everything.

12:42.595 --> 12:44.665
Right? And, and rightfully so.

12:44.695 --> 12:46.265
It's a business and,

12:46.285 --> 12:50.185
and winning is, is what kind of keeps you solvent

12:50.485 --> 12:52.905
and, you know, keeps everyone employed.

12:53.825 --> 12:57.675
Um, Harry always said, he used to tell people goes, you,

12:57.695 --> 12:59.115
you work this job to be fired,

12:59.935 --> 13:01.995
and this is eventually, you know, it'll happen.

13:03.145 --> 13:07.965
Um, but I think, you know, he was a great team builder,

13:07.985 --> 13:09.805
but we have to look beyond team building.

13:10.265 --> 13:11.445
He was a deep thinker

13:12.325 --> 13:15.605
whenever they had an existential question about the game.

13:16.545 --> 13:19.485
Uh, bud Seig, who was the commissioner of baseball and, and,

13:19.585 --> 13:22.485
and Harry's boss in Milwaukee, he said,

13:22.845 --> 13:26.245
whenever we had a, a major question about the game,

13:28.335 --> 13:31.085
Harry was the first person we consulted.

13:31.145 --> 13:34.565
He was the best baseball, he was the best mind

13:35.465 --> 13:38.245
in the game at that time as far as the larger

13:39.145 --> 13:41.425
issues facing the game.

13:42.705 --> 13:43.845
Um, he did some

13:43.845 --> 13:47.305
of the first work in Major League baseball on,

13:47.825 --> 13:49.265
employee assistance programs.

13:50.005 --> 13:51.465
Uh, in the eighties,

13:51.555 --> 13:53.945
major league baseball had a huge cocaine problem,

13:55.695 --> 13:59.555
and it sort of permeated through the Milwaukee clubhouse.

13:59.555 --> 14:01.395
And Harry was one of the first people to say

14:01.395 --> 14:03.555
after that fact, like, okay, we need to be able

14:03.555 --> 14:06.945
to help these guys as, as human beings

14:08.305 --> 14:10.045
and developed programs that will,

14:10.875 --> 14:13.125
that will help them, their mental health.

14:14.005 --> 14:17.475
I think his other legacy is,

14:18.185 --> 14:19.355
besides the team building

14:19.615 --> 14:24.185
and the, the, you know,

14:24.205 --> 14:27.625
the off the field things they worked on, his,

14:27.845 --> 14:30.985
his overarching legacy is, I think he's a hall of famer.

14:31.365 --> 14:33.425
Uh, he is, he is,

14:35.185 --> 14:38.245
he was extremely successful for a very long time.

14:39.295 --> 14:43.825
He was, able to change with the game.

14:45.675 --> 14:46.935
Um, he was,

14:49.425 --> 14:51.685
he managed Hall of Famers.

14:51.825 --> 14:53.245
He, he launched careers

14:53.245 --> 14:55.325
and players that are, will go down

14:55.325 --> 14:56.605
through the annals of baseball.

14:57.885 --> 15:02.835
And I think the other thing then too is when you take all

15:02.835 --> 15:04.835
of those things combined, and he's,

15:04.855 --> 15:07.155
and he trained some executives that went on

15:07.155 --> 15:09.515
to big time careers that are in the Hall of Fame.

15:09.735 --> 15:11.595
So to me, if you look at it

15:11.595 --> 15:15.215
and go, these people were trained by this individual,

15:15.635 --> 15:18.015
why isn't this individual in the Hall of Fame?

15:18.635 --> 15:23.115
And so I think that that is, a big,

15:24.665 --> 15:29.595
it's a big part of, of his legacy, his overarching legacy is

15:29.595 --> 15:32.635
that we have to look at him as a, as a potential Hall

15:32.635 --> 15:32.995
of fame camp.

Faculti AI can make mistakes

Miami University Anne Whitesell

Books

Deviant Matter: Ferment, Intoxicants, Jelly, Rot

University at Buffalo Kyla Wazana Tompkins

Faculti

Popular in Arts and Humanities

Titus Quinctius Flamininus’ “Italian triumph”

Lincoln and the Jews

Post-Kantian perfectionism

Amputations and Convalescence

Drawing on the past: Palladio, his precursors and knowledge of ancient architecture

Language, Sound, and Image in Wallace Berman’s Aleph, 1956–1966

Early Modern Natural Law Theories

Leave While the Party’s Good

Leave a Reply Cancel reply