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High school change

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How can the career-long scholarship of Karen Seashore Louis, alongside other key studies on educational change, illuminate the possibilities and challenges of transformational reform in high schools, particularly in light of recent global disruptions? Andrew Hargreaves discusses.

Image courtesy of interviewee. November 5, 2024

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This video is a detailed reflection on the work of Karen Seashore Lewis and discussions about educational change, particularly in middle and high schools. The speaker reflects on their introduction to Lewis's work, which began in the late 1980s following their move to Canada from the UK, emphasizing the importance of understanding both the substance and process of educational change.

Key points discussed include:

1. **Innovative Educational Research**: The speaker highlights Lewis's research on high school innovation and the conditions necessary for effective change, noting the evolution of educational planning and the idea of embracing problems as opportunities for growth.

2. **Knowledge Utilization**: They mention Lewis's concept of knowledge utilization, suggesting a shift to knowledge circulation, which involves co-creating knowledge between researchers and practitioners. This video fosters a more collaborative and effective educational environment.

3. **Challenges in High Schools**: The complexity of high schools, including issues of size, student engagement, and subject-oriented teaching structures, complicates innovation compared to elementary schools. The speaker argues that high school teachers often face unique challenges, including a stronger attachment to their subject areas and student disengagement.

4. **Professional Learning Communities**: This video stresses the importance of professional learning communities that encourage collaboration among educators. The speaker contends that changes should be gradual and built on existing strengths rather than imposing new structures all at once.

5. **Crisis in Education**: The speaker discusses recent crises in education, including student absenteeism and teacher recruitment and retention, exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. They advocate for changing the learning experience to make it more engaging and relevant to students' lives and aspirations.

6. **Vision for the Future**: Lastly, the speaker encourages rethinking the perception of teaching as merely a job, promoting it as a fulfilling career that offers opportunities for growth, change, and impact in the lives of students.

Overall, the speaker emphasizes the need for collaboration, understanding the complexities of educational systems, and fostering a supportive environment for both students and educators to thrive.

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Here are five key points from the video:

1. **Influence of Karen Seashore Lewis' Work**: The speaker acknowledges the significant impact of Karen Seashore Lewis' research on educational change, particularly her ideas on managing innovation and understanding the culture of schools. Lewis' collaborative approach to knowledge utilization suggests that practitioners should be involved in co-creating knowledge rather than merely receiving it from researchers.

2. **Evolutionary vs. Linear Planning**: The video highlights the importance of evolutionary planning over linear planning in educational reform. It argues that in the convideo of uncertainty, incremental planning and implementation allow for flexibility and adaptation in the face of challenges, suggesting that engaging with problems can lead to innovative solutions.

3. **Challenges in Secondary Education**: The speaker discusses the unique challenges faced by secondary schools, such as larger student populations, teacher subject identities, and social dynamics. The complexity and size of high schools make it difficult to establish effective collaborative practices and can lead to disengagement among students.

4. **Collaboration and Professional Learning Communities**: The emphasis on the need for collaboration among educators is crucial for fostering a supportive learning environment. The speaker advocates for professional learning communities as a means of sharing practices and expertise, stressing that teaching should be seen as a collaborative profession rather than an individual one.

5. **Crisis in Education**: The video identifies two major crises in the education sector: chronic absenteeism among students and challenges in teacher recruitment and retention, exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. The speaker calls for a shift in focus toward improving the learning experience for students and creating a more supportive environment for teachers, which prioritizes engagement over standardized testing and performance metrics.

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Here are some key quotes extracted from the video, highlighting the central themes and insights regarding educational change, innovation, and the role of teachers:

1. **On Educational Change**:
- "I began to get involved in the work of educational change... how we manage change, how we deal with the structures and cultures of change."

2. **On Innovation**:
- "Innovation makes more sense than linear planning... evolutionary planning is instead of having a five-year plan, you plan a bit and then you do a bit."

3. **On Viewing Problems**:
- "Problems are our friends... instead of seeing problems as obstacles, you start to see... if people resist you, begin working with your resistors."

4. **On Knowledge Utilization**:
- "How do we move research knowledge... she really started to help us think about how people in research and practice start to co-create the knowledge together."

5. **On Collaborative Professional Learning**:
- "This is a collaborative profession, not an individual profession."

6. **On High School Challenges**:
- "High schools are harder... size and complexity... the more complex they become, the more you have to think about structure as well as culture."

7. **On Teacher Identity and Innovation**:
- "Good traditional teaching... there’s good traditional teaching... but people are messing around to no good purpose."

8. **On the Importance of Leadership**:
- "It needs incredible leadership and focusing on the culture to make it happen."

9. **On Knowledge Circulation vs. Mobilization**:
- "I like to think of this... knowledge circulation rather than knowledge mobilization... it's always there, your circulation's always there."

10. **On Teacher Retention and Student Engagement**:
- "We have to change how the learning feels, and we have to change how the teaching feels."

11. **On Public Service in Education**:
- "We need to talk up public service a little bit more... it’s an education profession, not a teaching profession."

Each of these quotes encapsulates key ideas related to the dynamics of educational change, the importance of collaboration among educators, and the integral role of leadership in fostering innovation within schools.

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I was asked to write this article in a volume

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that was really focused on an at tribute to, the work

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of, Karen Seashore Lewis.

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I, I'd known her work since the

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late 1980s when I moved to Canada from the uk.

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So you'll probably recognize my accent is originally a, a,

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a British accent.

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And, it was really there in Canada that I began

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to get involved in the work of educational change.

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Not just the substance of change, but the process of change.

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Uh, how we, how we manage change, how we, deal

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with the structures and, cultures of change.

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So one of the,

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first pieces I came across was a piece by, Lewis

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and Miles, called Improving,

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the Urban High School, which is based both on, survey

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and, of 178 principals

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and, case studies of, five schools.

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This looked at, high schools that were attempting

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to be innovative and,

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looked at the conditions under which were innovative

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and the conditions that frustrated innovation at,

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at the same time.

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So, I, I really first came to her work when she was working

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with Matt Miles, who's passed away now.

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As somebody who knew a lot about secondary schools

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and knew a lot about, educational, change,

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there were some key lessons in there.

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Uh, I think that that, stuck with me.

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Things like evolutionary planning is in the context

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of innovation makes more sense than linear planning.

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Uh, so evolutionary planning is instead

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of having a five year plan, you plan a bit

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and then you do a bit, and then you plan a bit,

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and then you do a bit, and particularly in context now

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of the chaos and uncertainty that,

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that makes a lot more sense.

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Uh, and another thing they talked about together was

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problems are, are our friends.

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So instead of, seeing problems as obstacles

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that are in the way, you start to see

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that the obstacles are the way.

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So if, if people resist you, if you're begin working

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with, with your resistors rather than constantly trying

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to fight them, you, you have a chance of making more

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progress through that.

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And through inviting her to speak at one of my conferences

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that, that I ran in,

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in Toronto when I moved there in the late eighties,

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early nineties, I also became aware

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of her work on knowledge utilization as they then called it.

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I prefer to use the term knowledge circulation.

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And, that is basically how, how,

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once we have research knowledge, how we move it around.

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And contrary to what most people were saying then, the,

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the idea was then there are pivotal researchers

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who have the knowledge and then pose the question,

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how do we distribute this to practice?

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And she really started to help us think about

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how people in research

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and practice start to co-create the knowledge together so

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that the people who are the targets

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of the knowledge are themselves involved in, in the process

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of, of moving the knowledge around.

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So I think that was the second thing.

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And the most recent work, 'cause Karen still alive

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and very active is, is on an era

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that we're both involved in, which is,

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which is professional learning communities

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and professional communities in general.

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If you look at a lot of the change literature, it often,

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particularly the early change literature

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focuses elementary schools.

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So in, in elementary schools,

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people mainly have the same kind of roles.

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They, they may teach younger children or older children,

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but most teachers are, most teachers are

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with the same class all day.

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So, so the, the,

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the questions are easily shared and, familiar.

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What does the pedagogy look like?

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How do you, differentiate your, your pedagogy?

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How do you get your children to work in groups?

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Um, how do you collaborate with each other as a community?

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Uh, high schools are harder for,

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really, three reasons.

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So what one is, children are bigger,

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and so they're, they're, they're harder to manage.

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And, high school teachers are

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often a bit afraid of that.

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My own historic work is on middle schools, which is

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where I started my career.

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That that is when, in the early high school years, that

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that's when the, the problems begin to start.

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It's also when disengagement starts to set in.

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So student engagement is pretty good until,

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about 10 or 11 years old,

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and then it really starts to tail off in,

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in adolescence.

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Some people think that's just like hormones and physical

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and mental, development, but,

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but there are also signs

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that young people pick up engagement again, round about age

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of 15 or 16.

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So it, it, it's not just the hormones

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and the bodies there, there's something going on in

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what they're experiencing at the same time.

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So I think that's the first thing.

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The second thing is size, just sort

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of sheer size and complexity.

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Um, in the UK where you're talking from, you know,

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high schools can be anything from, from a few hundred up

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to typically a about 1500 kids, something like that.

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In the US they can go up to about 4,000 kids.

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That's usually justified by needing

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to have a very good football team

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that can compete on television

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with other good football teams.

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So the more kids you have,

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the more people you can select from for, athletics.

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It's a terrible idea, but it's very common.

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Um, so size

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and complexity is, once you get into that, you can't,

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you can't do everything informally like you can more

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in an elementary school.

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You can't, depend just on personal relationships like

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you can in an elementary school.

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It's like all organizations.

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They, the more complex they become, the more you have

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to think about structure as well as culture,

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as a way to bring about change.

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They, the third thing is, is that is a particular kind

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of structure, in secondary schools.

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So it's largely based on subjects

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and, subject communities.

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And, this means a couple of things.

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It means that, teachers are often very

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attached to their subjects

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and the way they see the world,

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including the way they see their students

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through their subjects.

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So maths teachers often see their students quite differently

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than say, history or geography.

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Teachers do. Uh, they see things like teaching mixed ability

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as easier in some subjects than in, than in,

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other subjects.

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And, you know, Karen Lewis's work picks up this

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to some degree, but there's also a bit about subjects.

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It's about hierarchy and elitism

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and, the social cluster structure of, of societies

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or more abstract and decontextualize knowledge becomes the

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easier it is for elite kids to do well at it.

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'cause they know the rules of the game

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and the harder it is for,

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kids from low income families

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or families that don't have that cultural capital

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to succeed.

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So there's a couple of things layered on each other

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here in subjects.

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The, the identification of the teacher with the subjects

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and the child, which makes cross subject talk harder,

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project work, interdisciplinary work harder, more,

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more challenging, and also a bit of elitism.

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Uh, at the same time within the social class

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structure of societies like the UK

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and the us, the Gates Foundation thought this was a terrific

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idea, put a lot of money into it,

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and then found out it was disastrous.

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Uh, because like any innovation, it, it's good

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for the people who believe in it.

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So where you had somewhat innovative schools where

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teachers were able to work together at a broad vision

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of children's learning, I can think of,

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one we worked in in Canada a number of years ago.

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Brand new school tended to hire teachers who were young,

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or teachers who, non-traditional high school teachers.

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So a lot of counselors, a lot of teachers

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who focused on special needs teachers

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who could see the whole child.

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And then round about year nine, that,

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that they were pretty successful in having, you know,

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a hundred kids, four teachers,

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figure it out yourselves between year.

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Um, and, so two of you might have them at once.

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Two of you might go off

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and, do some professional learning.

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Uh, one of you might work with a whole group, three

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of you might work with, with smaller

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groups, et cetera, et cetera.

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So, where the, the teachers believe in it

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and have lives that fit it,

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we've found this in a very new project we're doing,

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with the Lego Foundation, that,

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that then it can go very, very well.

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When, when teachers are more skeptical,

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they're locked into those subject identities,

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and then they're forced to do, school within a school.

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You know, there's, there's only one thing worse than,

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being in a large organization

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where you have no relationships or bad relationships.

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And that's being in a small organization

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where you have no relationships or bad relationships.

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So, so if teachers are skeptical,

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it can become quite claustrophobic kind

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of school within a school.

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So in principle, a good idea,

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but it needs incredible leadership

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and focusing on the culture to make it happen.

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And I'm a big believer that, in innovation,

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the danger is to try and change everything all at once,

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because we all find that hard to do anywhere in our lives.

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Change a few things at once and change some other things.

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And you're more likely to succeed.

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The ability of leaders to, to build community,

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professional learning, the, the importance of,

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having a system of, professional learning,

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autonomy for, so professional autonomy, respect

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for professional autonomy and professional judgment.

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But it's now what, what Michael Fullon

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and I would call collective autonomy,

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not individual autonomy.

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So individual autonomy means autonomy from people above you.

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Uh, collective autonomy means autonomy from people above you

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and, but no autonomy

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or less autonomy from the people beside you.

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So together you have more independence,

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but individually, there's more transparency

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amongst, each other.

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Uh, I, I think the key to,

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Karen Shaw Lewis's work is

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of course from many conventional things like, like time,

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time comes up in just every study of, of innovation,

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clear roles and, expectations,

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for people come up in, in pretty much,

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pretty much every study, professional learning,

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but they were pretty early in saying that the culture is,

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that the culture is the kind of community

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that you can create and,

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and how they build innovation together.

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And the, and the leaders who can do that,

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that is absolutely key.

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So, time, resources, professional learning,

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those are like the standards of,

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of innovation and change theory.

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But, but, but cultures bit more intangible.

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But probably the most important term is when you join

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that this is a collaborative profession,

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not an individual, profession.

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Um, I think every new teacher needs to learn that when

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They come into teaching.

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It's just like a basic understanding.

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Uh, medicine at its best.

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Uh, doctors, work together,

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architecture at its best architectures work with each other,

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and, and they work with the engineers.

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Uh, so, so all professions are,

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or should be inherently, collaborative.

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I think that that is, that is the first thing.

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Um,

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I think if you are starting from a very traditional

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structure of moving to a more innovative one,

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as I said earlier, don't,

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don't change everything all at once.

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Um, build on what teachers already know and can do.

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Don't make them feel bad about what they know

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and can already do.

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This is sometimes what tech innovation does.

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So it creates stereotypes of 19th century factory schools

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and compares bad traditional teaching to good,

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innovative teaching.

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But there's good traditional teaching, dead poet society.

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There's, there's, there's bad innovative teaching where,

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you know, nobody really knows what they're doing.

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And, but people are messing around to,

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to no good purpose.

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So you, you need a culture that recognizes the strength of

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what people can do, that that nudges them into,

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sometimes quite a hard nudge into trying something

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different, but not all the time.

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Perhaps one morning a week, perhaps one period a week.

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Um, if I can give an example, I have,

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we've had a big project funded by the Lego Foundation,

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creating a network of,

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40 innovative schools across Canada, focused on,

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innovations in the middle years

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for vulnerable kids immediately

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after covid to improve their engagement and, wellbeing.

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None of those schools have changed everything.

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They, they, they changed.

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So, for example, three of the schools on Friday mornings,

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would have classes organized

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around teacher's interests across the whole school,

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with kids of all ages coming into the classes.

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And, the,

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so these are things the teachers are passionate about.

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So sometimes we need to focus on the teacher's interests,

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not just the kids' interests.

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And these are everything from ice climbing to magic tricks,

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to knitting, to Minecraft, to, building shelters,

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indigenous shelters out in the woods, and so on.

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Um, and they just had to do this for Friday mornings that,

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that they didn't have.

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So the rest of the week they could do what they wanted,

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but as they always had, but they could learn from this

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and what they learned from this, you, you're then want

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as a leader to start to

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Spread in into other things that,

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that the teachers are doing.

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So, a collaborative ethic, a willingness to be openness,

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to change and try things.

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Don't, don't try everything at once and,

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and don't get people to

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abandon everything they've done in order

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to take on, on something new.

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For the namesake called David Hargreaves, who I,

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from the UK who is 85 years old now.

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I visited him recently.

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Uh, we used to teach together at Oxford University in the

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1980s, Hargraves, Hargraves,

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and Backhouse three rooms down the end of a,

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down the end of a corridor.

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And, he is just written two books.

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Um, one is called Beyond Schooling, and there's another one

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after that where, he's a libertarian.

325
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Um, so not a socialist, but a libertarian.

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And basically says pretty much,

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almost every effort at top down change that's meant

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to touch the curriculum

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and learning has, has been pretty much a catastrophe in,

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in bringing about any, improvement.

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So whether it's the left

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or the right, driving, everything from the center

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is very much likely to lead to disappointment

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for a couple of reasons.

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One is the center doesn't know what it's like on the ground.

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Uh, they, they, OECD recently did a study of hundreds

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of efforts at policy implementation over several decades in

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education, more than 80% of,

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innovations never get implemented properly.

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Over 80% be

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because the people at the center are too far away.

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They don't co-create it with the people who are affected.

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And there's loads of churning policy.

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So, so they, you know, the party

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and control changes, the people within a party change,

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you know, think Liz trusts, well,

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don't think Liz trusts, but, but,

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but think, you know, think, think Liz trusts,

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Rishi Soak, anything.

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So when the people change, the, the agendas change.

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Uh, new things come up like, all the time.

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Like artificial intelligence, for example,

353
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I've just been an alarm meeting this morning about AI

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with a local, director of education.

355
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Uh, nobody would've predicted that three years ago,

356
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nobody would've predicted a pandemic.

357
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Um, so, so you need the people on the ground

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to feel, they have a lot of agency, not autonomy,

359
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but a lot of agency together to bring about the changes

360
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with the children that they know best.

361
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In our 40 schools, we've got some communities

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who are indigenous, some who are mainly immigrant and poor.

363
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Uh, some who were traditional, white working class poor.

364
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Uh, so some who were, elite

365
00:17:36.705 --> 00:17:38.365
and privileged, one school

366
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with a disproportionately high number of L-G-B-T-Q students.

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So, so who choose to go there,

368
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'cause they, they feel it's safe and it's creative for them.

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The job at the top is to create a direction,

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is to create a set of values.

371
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Uh, a direction are entitled to do that.

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It's public education.

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That's what you are responsible for, to,

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provide the funding and to create some incentives in terms

375
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of, professional learning, leadership development

376
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and building communities and networks.

377
00:18:11.225 --> 00:18:12.605
But, but beyond that and,

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and every so often checkup that it's really happening,

379
00:18:16.145 --> 00:18:17.845
and, and that's about it.

380
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A traditional idea of knowledge utilization,

381
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which is still there with a lot of people with research ed.

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00:18:22.785 --> 00:18:27.365
Uh, for example, the research ed group is, is

383
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that you have a group of people usually in a university,

384
00:18:30.185 --> 00:18:31.565
but could be in a, not-for-profit.

385
00:18:31.775 --> 00:18:35.205
Could be, could be somewhere else, could be an laboratory.

386
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They do some research.

387
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It may be a, maybe a survey, maybe a blind control study.

388
00:18:41.225 --> 00:18:45.725
Um, these are very popular with the education,

389
00:18:46.195 --> 00:18:47.965
endowment trust, I think it's called.

390
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Um, and,

391
00:18:49.985 --> 00:18:53.325
and then you figure out ways to communicate that to,

392
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to the profession.

393
00:18:55.705 --> 00:18:58.285
So you may have conferences, you may have champions,

394
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you may have reports, you may have, websites.

395
00:19:03.745 --> 00:19:06.445
So there's a group of people who have the knowledge

396
00:19:06.905 --> 00:19:10.245
and then they push it out to, to a group of other people.

397
00:19:11.025 --> 00:19:13.645
Um, that's a pretty old fashioned view,

398
00:19:14.105 --> 00:19:17.405
but I think it's still there, by and large.

399
00:19:17.465 --> 00:19:18.645
And, and it, it,

400
00:19:18.745 --> 00:19:22.565
it creates a hierarchy in the education profession, I think

401
00:19:22.875 --> 00:19:25.045
between those, those who have the knowledge

402
00:19:25.045 --> 00:19:26.525
and those who get the knowledge, those

403
00:19:26.525 --> 00:19:29.285
who have the big picture, and those who get the big binder.

404
00:19:29.865 --> 00:19:30.965
And, and,

405
00:19:31.065 --> 00:19:34.325
and I think that's a disrespect to the profession.

406
00:19:34.785 --> 00:19:37.805
Uh, a good school is a and a good group of schools

407
00:19:37.905 --> 00:19:41.405
or communities of inquiry where, where the,

408
00:19:41.675 --> 00:19:43.565
they look at the knowledge from the outside,

409
00:19:44.225 --> 00:19:48.045
and then they have, a thoughtful relationship to it,

410
00:19:48.535 --> 00:19:50.485
which is, this seems to work for us.

411
00:19:50.665 --> 00:19:53.485
We have some problems with this. This works on average.

412
00:19:54.145 --> 00:19:56.845
Um, so we know like average effect sizes

413
00:19:56.845 --> 00:19:59.085
that people like John Hattie can show us,

414
00:19:59.385 --> 00:20:00.965
but at the end of the day, they're an average,

415
00:20:01.145 --> 00:20:03.085
and often they're a 15-year-old average

416
00:20:03.635 --> 00:20:06.645
that they don't really tell us about our school now.

417
00:20:06.745 --> 00:20:09.085
So, be open, be thoughtful, be intelligent.

418
00:20:09.665 --> 00:20:12.165
Use this process. It have somebody in the school

419
00:20:12.305 --> 00:20:14.645
who can perhaps, who can perhaps lead that

420
00:20:14.945 --> 00:20:18.325
and then undertake your own inquiries in relation

421
00:20:18.385 --> 00:20:20.045
to problems that you have.

422
00:20:20.145 --> 00:20:23.285
So there's a global, problem of,

423
00:20:23.285 --> 00:20:25.005
chronic absenteeism in schools.

424
00:20:25.285 --> 00:20:27.605
I was a chronic absentee in high school, by the way,

425
00:20:27.605 --> 00:20:29.605
because my father died when I was 12.

426
00:20:30.105 --> 00:20:32.285
My mother had a physical and mental breakdown,

427
00:20:32.665 --> 00:20:35.085
and I was suddenly in charge of the family rather than,

428
00:20:35.345 --> 00:20:37.925
rather than, so I went from the top of the class

429
00:20:37.945 --> 00:20:40.405
to the bottom, within a few months.

430
00:20:41.025 --> 00:20:43.845
And, so I know a bit about absenteeism,

431
00:20:43.845 --> 00:20:47.725
but there are many causes of absenteeism policymakers, like,

432
00:20:47.725 --> 00:20:50.285
like ones that, that, you know, make,

433
00:20:50.615 --> 00:20:54.085
increasing expectations, having punitive consequences

434
00:20:54.265 --> 00:20:55.485
for people who don't attend

435
00:20:55.745 --> 00:20:57.245
and wagging the finger at the parents.

436
00:20:57.785 --> 00:20:59.325
Uh, they don't usually think about

437
00:20:59.325 --> 00:21:02.205
what it is in the curriculum that, that some kids show up

438
00:21:02.205 --> 00:21:03.365
for some teachers, but they don't

439
00:21:03.365 --> 00:21:04.525
show up for other teachers.

440
00:21:04.835 --> 00:21:07.965
They show up for some subjects, but not for other subjects.

441
00:21:07.995 --> 00:21:09.725
They're coming to school to meet the friends,

442
00:21:09.785 --> 00:21:12.045
but they don't go into class, to,

443
00:21:12.305 --> 00:21:13.605
to engage with the learning.

444
00:21:13.995 --> 00:21:15.005
What can help you with

445
00:21:15.005 --> 00:21:19.205
that is a commutative inquiry within your school,

446
00:21:19.315 --> 00:21:21.165
that involves the absentee students.

447
00:21:21.745 --> 00:21:25.165
And so you need, you need both in this process.

448
00:21:25.705 --> 00:21:28.285
And then you need networks of schools that can move,

449
00:21:28.635 --> 00:21:30.285
that can move this knowledge around.

450
00:21:30.625 --> 00:21:35.405
So, for example, how take a tricky problem,

451
00:21:35.705 --> 00:21:39.605
you've got one child in your class, so,

452
00:21:40.705 --> 00:21:41.925
is on the autism spectrum

453
00:21:42.905 --> 00:21:46.405
and, perhaps makes a lot of noise and is disruptive,

454
00:21:46.785 --> 00:21:49.165
and you have another, severe A DHD

455
00:21:49.185 --> 00:21:51.645
and can't stand a lot of noise and distraction.

456
00:21:51.955 --> 00:21:53.925
They've, they've both got demanding parents.

457
00:21:54.355 --> 00:21:57.165
What do you do as a principal, as a head teacher?

458
00:21:57.585 --> 00:21:59.885
And one answer is, is you phone another head teacher

459
00:22:00.875 --> 00:22:03.605
because there isn't a book that can tell you what to do.

460
00:22:04.225 --> 00:22:08.125
Uh, so, so you need to move practical knowledge around

461
00:22:09.695 --> 00:22:12.775
official research, knowledge around, and,

462
00:22:12.795 --> 00:22:15.415
and the knowledge that comes from inquiry around.

463
00:22:15.515 --> 00:22:18.055
At the same time, I like to think of this,

464
00:22:18.125 --> 00:22:19.455
I've not written about this yet,

465
00:22:19.455 --> 00:22:21.415
but probably somebody will know the moment.

466
00:22:21.615 --> 00:22:25.615
I mention it as knowledge circulation rather than knowledge

467
00:22:26.365 --> 00:22:28.895
utilization or the more familiar term.

468
00:22:28.915 --> 00:22:32.775
Now, knowledge mobilization, mobilization sounds to me like,

469
00:22:32.995 --> 00:22:35.175
you know, moving tanks from the back of the country

470
00:22:35.235 --> 00:22:36.255
to the front of a country.

471
00:22:37.035 --> 00:22:39.615
Uh, knowledge circulation means it's always there.

472
00:22:39.615 --> 00:22:41.135
Your circulation's always there.

473
00:22:41.245 --> 00:22:42.655
They're all things moving around.

474
00:22:42.655 --> 00:22:44.815
Your body knowledge should be moving around.

475
00:22:44.845 --> 00:22:47.015
Like it moves from your liver to your lungs, to your,

476
00:22:47.395 --> 00:22:48.655
to your heart, and so on.

477
00:22:48.655 --> 00:22:51.215
You can have good circulation. You can have bad circulation.

478
00:22:51.715 --> 00:22:54.695
Uh, instead of getting a bit of your blood here in one part

479
00:22:54.695 --> 00:22:57.775
of your body and moving it to another part of your body,

480
00:22:58.275 --> 00:23:01.935
you, you need a certain quality of life in, in order

481
00:23:01.935 --> 00:23:03.455
to have a healthy circulation.

482
00:23:03.755 --> 00:23:05.335
And you need to have a good quality

483
00:23:05.475 --> 00:23:08.855
and culture of your educational system in order

484
00:23:08.855 --> 00:23:11.175
to have a healthy circulation of knowledge within that.

485
00:23:11.895 --> 00:23:13.015
I probably should write about this,

486
00:23:13.195 --> 00:23:17.895
but, somebody else will probably beat me to it.

487
00:23:17.895 --> 00:23:21.135
Now we have two chronic crises now, well, we have many,

488
00:23:21.155 --> 00:23:24.375
but two of them are these, the global crisis of absenteeism

489
00:23:25.645 --> 00:23:28.225
and the global crisis of teacher recruitment and retention.

490
00:23:30.695 --> 00:23:35.195
And, I was involved in a UN report,

491
00:23:35.265 --> 00:23:36.915
that came out in February.

492
00:23:37.585 --> 00:23:40.715
They established a high level panel of 17 former ministers

493
00:23:41.015 --> 00:23:44.515
and, union leaders on the future of the

494
00:23:44.755 --> 00:23:45.755
Teaching profession.

495
00:23:46.545 --> 00:23:48.925
And they commissioned six expert papers.

496
00:23:49.155 --> 00:23:53.085
Mine was one of those papers. Most of the papers said what?

497
00:23:53.085 --> 00:23:54.605
We already know they're true,

498
00:23:55.065 --> 00:23:56.525
but we've been saying them for years.

499
00:23:56.785 --> 00:23:59.965
Uh, you wanna retain teachers more, more pay,

500
00:23:59.995 --> 00:24:03.805
more status, less workload, better wellbeing.

501
00:24:04.665 --> 00:24:06.405
Um, all of these are true.

502
00:24:08.975 --> 00:24:12.575
I believe that the crisis of absenteeism in student learning

503
00:24:12.995 --> 00:24:14.815
and the crisis of recruitment

504
00:24:14.815 --> 00:24:17.895
and retention in teaching both occurred

505
00:24:17.895 --> 00:24:19.375
because of the disruption of covid.

506
00:24:19.885 --> 00:24:23.095
That there were kind long running, developing trends.

507
00:24:23.755 --> 00:24:26.295
But, but Covid took something that was getting stretched

508
00:24:26.295 --> 00:24:29.215
and snapped it, and it brought the habit of schooling

509
00:24:29.555 --> 00:24:31.295
for the adults as well as for the kids.

510
00:24:32.155 --> 00:24:34.655
And a lot of people said, you know, I've been getting up

511
00:24:34.655 --> 00:24:37.535
and doing this every morning, you know, going to school,

512
00:24:37.905 --> 00:24:41.095
doing my job, coming home, doing my learning, coming home.

513
00:24:41.515 --> 00:24:42.655
Do I really need to do this?

514
00:24:43.605 --> 00:24:47.745
And people start going to work, outside teaching.

515
00:24:48.005 --> 00:24:49.865
So many people ask the question.

516
00:24:50.845 --> 00:24:54.585
So in instead of wagging the finger at, at parents

517
00:24:54.965 --> 00:24:56.265
to get kids to come to school

518
00:24:57.315 --> 00:25:00.775
or thinking we can just deal with

519
00:25:01.445 --> 00:25:04.815
what are called the organiza organization health factors,

520
00:25:05.425 --> 00:25:06.815
which are things like pay

521
00:25:06.815 --> 00:25:09.535
and status to bring people into

522
00:25:09.815 --> 00:25:10.975
teaching and keep them there.

523
00:25:11.675 --> 00:25:14.695
We need to think hard about how we

524
00:25:15.925 --> 00:25:18.135
attract people, the kids

525
00:25:18.435 --> 00:25:21.655
and the teachers, into really wanting to learn

526
00:25:22.685 --> 00:25:24.025
and really wanting to teach,

527
00:25:24.885 --> 00:25:27.905
and making them think that they can do that and they can be,

528
00:25:28.205 --> 00:25:30.505
and they can be, successful.

529
00:25:31.345 --> 00:25:33.365
And so we have to change how the learning feels,

530
00:25:33.985 --> 00:25:36.205
and we have to change how the teaching feels.

531
00:25:37.425 --> 00:25:41.005
Um, and we need learning

532
00:25:41.425 --> 00:25:43.965
and teaching that are less driven by competition,

533
00:25:44.635 --> 00:25:49.245
less driven by examination results, less driven by,

534
00:25:49.515 --> 00:25:53.645
unrealistic targets, less driven by punitive inspections.

535
00:25:54.505 --> 00:25:58.485
And, more driven by, by the quality

536
00:25:58.545 --> 00:26:01.845
and the character of the learning for the young people,

537
00:26:02.115 --> 00:26:06.485
that, that they see as, inherently interesting,

538
00:26:06.905 --> 00:26:08.085
useful for their lives.

539
00:26:08.235 --> 00:26:10.205
They, they want to get up in the morning

540
00:26:10.445 --> 00:26:12.005
'cause they think they're gonna learn something new.

541
00:26:12.475 --> 00:26:14.165
They're gonna do it with their friends.

542
00:26:14.785 --> 00:26:18.125
Uh, and, and, they're not always gonna find it easy,

543
00:26:18.745 --> 00:26:19.805
but, but,

544
00:26:19.945 --> 00:26:22.445
but they'll always, they'll always find it interesting

545
00:26:22.705 --> 00:26:24.165
and they'll feel well supported

546
00:26:24.545 --> 00:26:27.405
and that the adults will feel exactly the same thing.

547
00:26:28.265 --> 00:26:32.205
And, if, if we focus less on

548
00:26:32.745 --> 00:26:36.125
the exams and the competition, and,

549
00:26:36.145 --> 00:26:37.765
and the hierarchies of control

550
00:26:38.385 --> 00:26:40.045
and more on changing how the learning

551
00:26:40.045 --> 00:26:42.885
and the teaching feels by giving people

552
00:26:42.995 --> 00:26:46.085
More wiggle room, more flexible,

553
00:26:46.085 --> 00:26:50.445
professional learning, time to be a community

554
00:26:50.865 --> 00:26:54.085
and, and to work on things together, not, not just meetings

555
00:26:54.255 --> 00:26:58.365
where you talk about things together, and,

556
00:26:58.505 --> 00:27:03.305
and that this innovation is, is, is seen

557
00:27:03.645 --> 00:27:07.145
as, changing our schools, changing ourselves

558
00:27:07.165 --> 00:27:09.985
and changing the world all at once, then,

559
00:27:10.135 --> 00:27:11.905
then I think people will show up.

560
00:27:11.905 --> 00:27:14.865
And here's the thing, I think in schools with kids, we need

561
00:27:14.865 --> 00:27:16.345
to talk up business a little bit less

562
00:27:16.805 --> 00:27:20.465
and we need to talk up public service a little bit more,

563
00:27:20.465 --> 00:27:22.465
because there are lots of people trying

564
00:27:22.465 --> 00:27:25.985
to think they can be an instant Instagram, celebrity

565
00:27:26.445 --> 00:27:31.345
or, or, multimillion on,

566
00:27:31.345 --> 00:27:33.145
entrepreneur in a startup company.

567
00:27:33.605 --> 00:27:36.665
And they end up being like 32 years old

568
00:27:36.665 --> 00:27:37.705
and on their fifth internship.

569
00:27:38.565 --> 00:27:41.785
And this is what's happening to a lot of, gen Z

570
00:27:42.465 --> 00:27:44.585
actually, and, to millennials.

571
00:27:44.965 --> 00:27:46.705
And, you know, you talk at public service,

572
00:27:46.885 --> 00:27:49.985
if it's interesting you say you, you have probably a, a,

573
00:27:50.065 --> 00:27:51.105
a job for life here.

574
00:27:51.125 --> 00:27:52.505
You might not be a teacher for life.

575
00:27:52.725 --> 00:27:54.145
You might be a head teacher, you might

576
00:27:54.145 --> 00:27:55.225
be a teacher educator.

577
00:27:55.765 --> 00:27:57.505
You, you might be a textbook writer,

578
00:27:57.685 --> 00:27:59.505
you might develop a learning platform,

579
00:27:59.805 --> 00:28:01.225
you might be a coach, a mentor.

580
00:28:01.775 --> 00:28:04.665
It's an education profession, not a teaching profession.

581
00:28:05.285 --> 00:28:07.625
And, you might not make a lot at

582
00:28:07.625 --> 00:28:08.905
first, but you'll make enough.

583
00:28:08.925 --> 00:28:09.945
And if you're really good,

584
00:28:09.945 --> 00:28:11.665
eventually you'll make a lot actually,

585
00:28:12.095 --> 00:28:13.425
like you will in any career.

586
00:28:14.125 --> 00:28:16.865
Uh, you'll get some flexibility for your family.

587
00:28:17.185 --> 00:28:19.705
I know the governments are working on this in the UK now,

588
00:28:20.245 --> 00:28:22.385
and, and it's a great career

589
00:28:22.965 --> 00:28:24.705
and you can change people's lives

590
00:28:25.125 --> 00:28:27.705
and come home feeling appreciated at the end of the day.

591
00:28:28.085 --> 00:28:30.745
So we should start off with the kids that we teach,

592
00:28:30.765 --> 00:28:33.545
and then with the learning and then with the adults.

Reflections on Karen Seashore Lewis's Impact on Educational Change

00:00:00 - I was asked to write this article in a volume that was really focused on an at tribute to, the work of, Karen Seashore Lewis. I, I'd known her work since the late 1980s when I moved to Canada from the uk. So you'll probably recognize my accent is originally a, a, a British accent. And, it was really there in Canada that I began to get involved in the work of educational change.

00:00:33 - how we, how we manage change, how we, deal with the structures and, cultures of change. So one of the, first pieces I came across was a piece by, Lewis and Miles, called Improving, the Urban High School, which is based both on, survey and, of 178 principals and, case studies of, five schools.

00:01:05 - to be innovative and, looked at the conditions under which were innovative and the conditions that frustrated innovation at, at the same time. So, I, I really first came to her work when she was working with Matt Miles, who's passed away now. As somebody who knew a lot about secondary schools and knew a lot about, educational, change, there were some key lessons in there. I think that that, stuck with me.

Adapting Innovation through Evolutionary Planning and Collaborative Knowledge Utilization

00:01:37 - of innovation makes more sense than linear planning. so evolutionary planning is instead of having a five year plan, you plan a bit and then you do a bit, and then you plan a bit, and then you do a bit, and particularly in context now of the chaos and uncertainty that, that makes a lot more sense. and another thing they talked about together was problems are, are our friends. So instead of, seeing problems as obstacles that are in the way, you start to see

00:02:06 - So if, if people resist you, if you're begin working with, with your resistors rather than constantly trying to fight them, you, you have a chance of making more progress through that. And through inviting her to speak at one of my conferences that, that I ran in, in Toronto when I moved there in the late eighties, early nineties, I also became aware of her work on knowledge utilization as they then called it.

00:02:38 - And, that is basically how, how, once we have research knowledge, how we move it around. And contrary to what most people were saying then, the, the idea was then there are pivotal researchers who have the knowledge and then pose the question, how do we distribute this to practice? And she really started to help us think about how people in research and practice start to co-create the knowledge together so

Navigating Professional Learning Communities in Education

00:03:09 - of the knowledge are themselves involved in, in the process of, of moving the knowledge around. So I think that was the second thing. And the most recent work, 'cause Karen still alive and very active is, is on an era that we're both involved in, which is, which is professional learning communities and professional communities in general. If you look at a lot of the change literature, it often, particularly the early change literature focuses elementary schools. So in, in elementary schools,

00:03:40 - They, they may teach younger children or older children, but most teachers are, most teachers are with the same class all day. So, so the, the, the questions are easily shared and, familiar. What does the pedagogy look like? How do you, differentiate your, your pedagogy? How do you get your children to work in groups? how do you collaborate with each other as a community? high schools are harder for,

00:04:10 - So what one is, children are bigger, and so they're, they're, they're harder to manage. And, high school teachers are often a bit afraid of that. My own historic work is on middle schools, which is where I started my career. That that is when, in the early high school years, that that's when the, the problems begin to start. It's also when disengagement starts to set in. So student engagement is pretty good until, about 10 or 11 years old,

Understanding Adolescent Engagement and School Complexity

00:04:44 - in adolescence. Some people think that's just like hormones and physical and mental, development, but, but there are also signs that young people pick up engagement again, round about age of 15 or 16. So it, it, it's not just the hormones and the bodies there, there's something going on in what they're experiencing at the same time. So I think that's the first thing. The second thing is size, just sort

00:05:13 - in the UK where you're talking from, you know, high schools can be anything from, from a few hundred up to typically a about 1500 kids, something like that. In the US they can go up to about 4,000 kids. That's usually justified by needing to have a very good football team that can compete on television with other good football teams. So the more kids you have, the more people you can select from for, athletics. It's a terrible idea, but it's very common.

00:05:45 - and complexity is, once you get into that, you can't, you can't do everything informally like you can more in an elementary school. You can't, depend just on personal relationships like you can in an elementary school. It's like all organizations. They, the more complex they become, the more you have to think about structure as well as culture, as a way to bring about change. They, the third thing is, is that is a particular kind of structure, in secondary schools.

Subject Identity and Educational Equity

00:06:18 - and, subject communities. And, this means a couple of things. It means that, teachers are often very attached to their subjects and the way they see the world, including the way they see their students through their subjects. So maths teachers often see their students quite differently than say, history or geography. Teachers do. they see things like teaching mixed ability

00:06:53 - other subjects. And, you know, Karen Lewis's work picks up this to some degree, but there's also a bit about subjects. It's about hierarchy and elitism and, the social cluster structure of, of societies or more abstract and decontextualize knowledge becomes the easier it is for elite kids to do well at it. 'cause they know the rules of the game

00:07:24 - kids from low income families or families that don't have that cultural capital to succeed. So there's a couple of things layered on each other here in subjects. The, the identification of the teacher with the subjects and the child, which makes cross subject talk harder, project work, interdisciplinary work harder, more, more challenging, and also a bit of elitism. at the same time within the social class

Challenges of Educational Innovation: Lessons from Experience

00:07:53 - and the us, the Gates Foundation thought this was a terrific idea, put a lot of money into it, and then found out it was disastrous. because like any innovation, it, it's good for the people who believe in it. So where you had somewhat innovative schools where teachers were able to work together at a broad vision of children's learning, I can think of, one we worked in in Canada a number of years ago. Brand new school tended to hire teachers who were young,

00:08:24 - So a lot of counselors, a lot of teachers who focused on special needs teachers who could see the whole child. And then round about year nine, that, that they were pretty successful in having, you know, a hundred kids, four teachers, figure it out yourselves between year. and, so two of you might have them at once. Two of you might go off and, do some professional learning. one of you might work with a whole group, three

00:08:53 - groups, et cetera, et cetera. So, where the, the teachers believe in it and have lives that fit it, we've found this in a very new project we're doing, with the Lego Foundation, that, that then it can go very, very well. When, when teachers are more skeptical, they're locked into those subject identities, and then they're forced to do, school within a school. You know, there's, there's only one thing worse than,

Fostering Collaborative Leadership for Effective Change

00:09:24 - where you have no relationships or bad relationships. And that's being in a small organization where you have no relationships or bad relationships. So, so if teachers are skeptical, it can become quite claustrophobic kind of school within a school. So in principle, a good idea, but it needs incredible leadership and focusing on the culture to make it happen. And I'm a big believer that, in innovation, the danger is to try and change everything all at once,

00:09:58 - Change a few things at once and change some other things. And you're more likely to succeed. The ability of leaders to, to build community, professional learning, the, the importance of, having a system of, professional learning, autonomy for, so professional autonomy, respect for professional autonomy and professional judgment. But it's now what, what Michael Fullon

00:10:27 - not individual autonomy. So individual autonomy means autonomy from people above you. collective autonomy means autonomy from people above you and, but no autonomy or less autonomy from the people beside you. So together you have more independence, but individually, there's more transparency amongst, each other. I, I think the key to,

Emphasizing Collaboration in Educational Innovation

00:10:58 - of course from many conventional things like, like time, time comes up in just every study of, of innovation, clear roles and, expectations, for people come up in, in pretty much, pretty much every study, professional learning, but they were pretty early in saying that the culture is, that the culture is the kind of community that you can create and, and how they build innovation together.

00:11:28 - that is absolutely key. So, time, resources, professional learning, those are like the standards of, of innovation and change theory. But, but, but cultures bit more intangible. But probably the most important term is when you join that this is a collaborative profession, not an individual, profession. I think every new teacher needs to learn that when They come into teaching. It's just like a basic understanding.

00:11:59 - doctors, work together, architecture at its best architectures work with each other, and, and they work with the engineers. so, so all professions are, or should be inherently, collaborative. I think that that is, that is the first thing. I think if you are starting from a very traditional structure of moving to a more innovative one,

Incremental Change in Education: Building on Tradition

00:12:30 - don't change everything all at once. build on what teachers already know and can do. Don't make them feel bad about what they know and can already do. This is sometimes what tech innovation does. So it creates stereotypes of 19th century factory schools and compares bad traditional teaching to good, innovative teaching. But there's good traditional teaching, dead poet society.

00:13:06 - you know, nobody really knows what they're doing. And, but people are messing around to, to no good purpose. So you, you need a culture that recognizes the strength of what people can do, that that nudges them into, sometimes quite a hard nudge into trying something different, but not all the time. Perhaps one morning a week, perhaps one period a week. if I can give an example, I have,

00:13:37 - creating a network of, 40 innovative schools across Canada, focused on, innovations in the middle years for vulnerable kids immediately after covid to improve their engagement and, wellbeing. None of those schools have changed everything. They, they, they changed. So, for example, three of the schools on Friday mornings,

Empowering Teacher Interests for Student Engagement

00:14:08 - around teacher's interests across the whole school, with kids of all ages coming into the classes. And, the, so these are things the teachers are passionate about. So sometimes we need to focus on the teacher's interests, not just the kids' interests. And these are everything from ice climbing to magic tricks, to knitting, to Minecraft, to, building shelters, indigenous shelters out in the woods, and so on.

00:14:40 - that they didn't have. So the rest of the week they could do what they wanted, but as they always had, but they could learn from this and what they learned from this, you, you're then want as a leader to start to Spread in into other things that, that the teachers are doing. So, a collaborative ethic, a willingness to be openness, to change and try things. Don't, don't try everything at once and, and don't get people to

00:15:08 - to take on, on something new. For the namesake called David Hargreaves, who I, from the UK who is 85 years old now. I visited him recently. we used to teach together at Oxford University in the 1980s, Hargraves, Hargraves, and Backhouse three rooms down the end of a, down the end of a corridor. And, he is just written two books. one is called Beyond Schooling, and there's another one after that where, he's a libertarian.

Challenges of Top-Down Educational Reform

00:15:39 - And basically says pretty much, almost every effort at top down change that's meant to touch the curriculum and learning has, has been pretty much a catastrophe in, in bringing about any, improvement. So whether it's the left or the right, driving, everything from the center is very much likely to lead to disappointment for a couple of reasons. One is the center doesn't know what it's like on the ground.

00:16:12 - of efforts at policy implementation over several decades in education, more than 80% of, innovations never get implemented properly. Over 80% be because the people at the center are too far away. They don't co-create it with the people who are affected. And there's loads of churning policy. So, so they, you know, the party and control changes, the people within a party change,

00:16:43 - don't think Liz trusts, but, but, but think, you know, think, think Liz trusts, Rishi Soak, anything. So when the people change, the, the agendas change. new things come up like, all the time. Like artificial intelligence, for example, I've just been an alarm meeting this morning about AI with a local, director of education. nobody would've predicted that three years ago, nobody would've predicted a pandemic. so, so you need the people on the ground

Empowering Diverse Educational Communities

00:17:17 - but a lot of agency together to bring about the changes with the children that they know best. In our 40 schools, we've got some communities who are indigenous, some who are mainly immigrant and poor. some who were traditional, white working class poor. so some who were, elite and privileged, one school with a disproportionately high number of L-G-B-T-Q students. So, so who choose to go there,

00:17:48 - The job at the top is to create a direction, is to create a set of values. a direction are entitled to do that. It's public education. That's what you are responsible for, to, provide the funding and to create some incentives in terms of, professional learning, leadership development and building communities and networks. But, but beyond that and, and every so often checkup that it's really happening,

00:18:18 - A traditional idea of knowledge utilization, which is still there with a lot of people with research ed. for example, the research ed group is, is that you have a group of people usually in a university, but could be in a, not-for-profit. Could be, could be somewhere else, could be an laboratory. They do some research. It may be a, maybe a survey, maybe a blind control study. these are very popular with the education,

Bridging Knowledge Gaps in Education

00:18:48 - and, and then you figure out ways to communicate that to, to the profession. So you may have conferences, you may have champions, you may have reports, you may have, websites. So there's a group of people who have the knowledge and then they push it out to, to a group of other people. that's a pretty old fashioned view, but I think it's still there, by and large.

00:19:18 - it creates a hierarchy in the education profession, I think between those, those who have the knowledge and those who get the knowledge, those who have the big picture, and those who get the big binder. And, and, and I think that's a disrespect to the profession. a good school is a and a good group of schools or communities of inquiry where, where the, they look at the knowledge from the outside, and then they have, a thoughtful relationship to it,

00:19:50 - We have some problems with this. This works on average. so we know like average effect sizes that people like John Hattie can show us, but at the end of the day, they're an average, and often they're a 15-year-old average that they don't really tell us about our school now. So, be open, be thoughtful, be intelligent. Use this process. It have somebody in the school who can perhaps, who can perhaps lead that and then undertake your own inquiries in relation to problems that you have.

Understanding Chronic Absenteeism in Schools

00:20:23 - chronic absenteeism in schools. I was a chronic absentee in high school, by the way, because my father died when I was 12. My mother had a physical and mental breakdown, and I was suddenly in charge of the family rather than, rather than, so I went from the top of the class to the bottom, within a few months. And, so I know a bit about absenteeism, but there are many causes of absenteeism policymakers, like, like ones that, that, you know, make,

00:20:54 - for people who don't attend and wagging the finger at the parents. they don't usually think about what it is in the curriculum that, that some kids show up for some teachers, but they don't show up for other teachers. They show up for some subjects, but not for other subjects. They're coming to school to meet the friends, but they don't go into class, to, to engage with the learning. What can help you with that is a commutative inquiry within your school, that involves the absentee students.

00:21:25 - And then you need networks of schools that can move, that can move this knowledge around. So, for example, how take a tricky problem, you've got one child in your class, so, is on the autism spectrum and, perhaps makes a lot of noise and is disruptive, and you have another, severe A DHD and can't stand a lot of noise and distraction.

Circulating Knowledge in Education

00:21:54 - What do you do as a principal, as a head teacher? And one answer is, is you phone another head teacher because there isn't a book that can tell you what to do. so, so you need to move practical knowledge around official research, knowledge around, and, and the knowledge that comes from inquiry around. At the same time, I like to think of this, I've not written about this yet, but probably somebody will know the moment. I mention it as knowledge circulation rather than knowledge

00:22:28 - Now, knowledge mobilization, mobilization sounds to me like, you know, moving tanks from the back of the country to the front of a country. knowledge circulation means it's always there. Your circulation's always there. They're all things moving around. Your body knowledge should be moving around. Like it moves from your liver to your lungs, to your, to your heart, and so on. You can have good circulation. You can have bad circulation. instead of getting a bit of your blood here in one part of your body and moving it to another part of your body,

00:23:01 - to have a healthy circulation. And you need to have a good quality and culture of your educational system in order to have a healthy circulation of knowledge within that. I probably should write about this, but, somebody else will probably beat me to it. Now we have two chronic crises now, well, we have many, but two of them are these, the global crisis of absenteeism and the global crisis of teacher recruitment and retention.

Addressing Teacher Retention and Student Engagement Post-COVID

00:23:35 - that came out in February. They established a high level panel of 17 former ministers and, union leaders on the future of the Teaching profession. And they commissioned six expert papers. Mine was one of those papers. Most of the papers said what? We already know they're true, but we've been saying them for years. you wanna retain teachers more, more pay, more status, less workload, better wellbeing.

00:24:08 - I believe that the crisis of absenteeism in student learning and the crisis of recruitment and retention in teaching both occurred because of the disruption of covid. That there were kind long running, developing trends. But, but Covid took something that was getting stretched and snapped it, and it brought the habit of schooling for the adults as well as for the kids. And a lot of people said, you know, I've been getting up and doing this every morning, you know, going to school,

00:24:41 - Do I really need to do this? And people start going to work, outside teaching. So many people ask the question. So in instead of wagging the finger at, at parents to get kids to come to school or thinking we can just deal with what are called the organiza organization health factors, which are things like pay and status to bring people into

Revamping Education: Fostering Intrinsic Motivation in Learning and Teaching

00:25:11 - We need to think hard about how we attract people, the kids and the teachers, into really wanting to learn and really wanting to teach, and making them think that they can do that and they can be, and they can be, successful. And so we have to change how the learning feels, and we have to change how the teaching feels. and we need learning

00:25:44 - less driven by examination results, less driven by, unrealistic targets, less driven by punitive inspections. And, more driven by, by the quality and the character of the learning for the young people, that, that they see as, inherently interesting, useful for their lives. They, they want to get up in the morning 'cause they think they're gonna learn something new.

00:26:14 - and, and, they're not always gonna find it easy, but, but, but they'll always, they'll always find it interesting and they'll feel well supported and that the adults will feel exactly the same thing. And, if, if we focus less on the exams and the competition, and, and the hierarchies of control and more on changing how the learning and the teaching feels by giving people

Embracing Community and Public Service in Education

00:26:46 - professional learning, time to be a community and, and to work on things together, not, not just meetings where you talk about things together, and, and that this innovation is, is, is seen as, changing our schools, changing ourselves and changing the world all at once, then, then I think people will show up. And here's the thing, I think in schools with kids, we need

00:27:16 - and we need to talk up public service a little bit more, because there are lots of people trying to think they can be an instant Instagram, celebrity or, or, multimillion on, entrepreneur in a startup company. And they end up being like 32 years old and on their fifth internship. And this is what's happening to a lot of, gen Z actually, and, to millennials.

00:27:46 - if it's interesting you say you, you have probably a, a, a job for life here. You might not be a teacher for life. You might be a head teacher, you might be a teacher educator. You, you might be a textbook writer, you might develop a learning platform, you might be a coach, a mentor. It's an education profession, not a teaching profession. And, you might not make a lot at first, but you'll make enough. And if you're really good, eventually you'll make a lot actually, like you will in any career. you'll get some flexibility for your family.

Transformative Careers in Education

00:28:30 - and, and it's a great career and you can change people's lives and come home feeling appreciated at the end of the day. So we should start off with the kids that we teach, and then with the learning and then with the adults.

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