Popular in History

Arts and Humanities

Titus Quinctius Flamininus’ “Italian triumph”

McGill University Michael Fronda

Arts and Humanities

Lincoln and the Jews

Brandeis University Jonathan Sarna

Arts and Humanities

Early Modern Natural Law Theories

University of Copenhagen Knud Haakonssen

Arts and Humanities

Phoenicians Among Others: Why Migrants Mattered in the Ancient Mediterranean

University of California San Diego Denise Demetriou

Arts and Humanities

The loneliness of leadership

University of Liverpool Elaine Chalus

Arts and Humanities

La Güera Rodríguez

Brandeis University Silvia Arrom

Arts and Humanities

The Myth of Continuity in American Gun Culture

University of California Berkeley Brian DeLay

Ukraine’s Missing Children: Slipping into a Life of War Crime

View more insights in Arts and Humanities - History - European History

View more figures from University of Western Ontario

View the page of Vivian McAlister

Read the Study

· Tools Cite Embed

Vivian McAlister discusses Russian nationalism and Ukraine’s Missing Children

Image courtesy of interviewee. August 13, 2024

Log-in or Sign-up to Faculti
Currently viewing this subject insight as a guest. You have insight(s) remaining for this month.

Workspace

Faculti AI is thinking...

< >

Summary
Related Studies
Faculti AI
Key Points
Key Quotes
Translate
Transcript

Export as PDF

This video is a transcript of an interview discussing the serious issue of missing children in Ukraine amidst the ongoing conflict with Russia. Vivian, the interviewee, shares insights on the motivations behind the interest in this topic, referencing the International Criminal Court's indictment of Russian President Putin and Maria Lova Belova, Russia's Commissioner for Children’s Rights.

Vivian describes Belova as an unlikely figure for such charges, noting her conservative appearance and background. He delves into the history of the role of the Commissioner for Children's Rights in Russia, highlighting how the office transformed under Anna Kva, Belova's predecessor, especially after a tragedy involving children. He outlines how Kva and Belova share similar profiles, including connections to the Russian Orthodox Church.

With the war in Ukraine, Belova allegedly organized efforts to follow troops and pick up children during the invasion, claiming they were helping abandoned children and addressing their needs. He critiques her justifications as absurd in the context of war and emphasizes that there seems to be a systematic plan to adopt children from conflict zones.

Vivian discusses the historical context of international adoption in Russia, which gained prominence in the 1990s after the Soviet collapse and how recent efforts align with nationalist and Orthodox ideologies. He asserts that Putin’s administration has politicized the issue of orphans and stresses the implications for individuals involved in these adoptions, suggesting that legal repercussions could emerge as the situation evolves.

He concludes by indicating that the situation for these children is not just a matter of current war crimes but a broader moral and humanitarian issue that will persist over time, urging a more profound societal response to prevent such politicization of vulnerable lives. The interview raises concerns about ethical responsibilities and the potential for future repercussions for those involved in adopting children amid conflict.

Language:

Export as PDF

Export as PDF
Here are five key points from the video:

1. **Indictment of Putin and Maria Lova Belova**: The video discusses the indictment of Russian President Vladimir Putin and Maria Lova Belova, the Commissioner for Children's Rights in Russia, highlighting the perceived discrepancy between their public appearances and the serious crimes they are charged with, especially in the convideo of the war in Ukraine.

2. **Historical Convideo of Adoption Practices**: It examines the historical practices of adoption in Russia, particularly following the collapse of the Soviet Union, where international adoption became a solution for orphanages facing funding issues. The narrative links this history to recent events where children are being collected and adopted during wartime, raising concerns about the nature and legality of these actions.

3. **Role of the Russian Orthodox Church**: The video elaborates on the involvement of the Russian Orthodox Church and its influence on the Russian government, particularly through figures like Maria Lova Belova and her predecessor Anna Kva. The church's backing plays a significant role in the policies concerning children and adoption during the current conflict, blending religious and nationalist sentiments.

4. **Legal Implications of Child Relocation**: A significant focus is on the legal ramifications of forcibly relocating Ukrainian children into Russia. The video outlines how the movement of these children across borders could constitute a crime against humanity, emphasizing that while forced adoption within a country may not be illegal, crossing borders changes that legal dynamic.

5. **Future Consequences and International Response**: The discussion also reflects on the potential long-term consequences for individuals involved in these actions, suggesting that even those who adopt children from Ukraine may face legal repercussions in the future as international accountability increases. The video warns that past lessons indicate this issue is far from resolved and may resurface in the future as more attention is given to such crimes.

Export as PDF
Here are some key quotes extracted from the video:

1. "Nobody is surprised that President Putin is included because he's the ultimate authority."

2. "Maria Lova Belova, uh, you know, when I saw a picture of her, it just did not fit...indicted with such a serious crime."

3. "As far as I can see wars and conflicts, people behave in a very similar fashion."

4. "Maria Lova Belova came to the job in October, 2021 as Commissioner for children's rights in Russia."

5. "Adoption is very much part of this story."

6. "The actual conspiracy takes an enormous number of people to effect."

7. "This is a church that's getting deeply involved in crimes, and they need to...And I think many of the adherents don't want this."

8. "If somebody says you adopted knowingly a Ukrainian child...you could be arrested."

9. "The second thing is, the people who have conducted this crime know that they will never, ever be free from it."

10. "This indictment has one for the children who have been taken forcibly and do not want to be where they are."

These quotes capture significant elements of the discussed topics regarding authority, individual roles in crises, adoption, and the implications of international law in the convideo of the ongoing situation involving Ukraine and Russia.

Export as PDF
Here are some similar articles that discuss themes related to missing children, the impact of war on vulnerable populations, adoption, and the broader implications of political actions on humanitarian issues:

1. **"The Impact of War on Children: A Global Perspective"** - This article explores how armed conflict disproportionately affects children around the world, with cases of abduction, abandonment, and the challenges faced in their protection and care.

2. **"War and its Effects on Child Welfare: Case Studies from Ukraine"** - A detailed examination of the specific challenges faced by children in war-torn regions, including the implications of political decisions on their safety and welfare.

3. **"International Law and the Abduction of Children during Armed Conflicts"** - This article discusses the legal frameworks that address the abduction of children in conflict situations, including the role of the International Criminal Court and recent indictments of political leaders.

4. **"The Politics of Orphans: Adoption Trends in Post-Soviet States"** - An analysis of how political climates influence international adoption practices, particularly in countries recovering from conflict or political turmoil, with a focus on Russia.

5. **"Kids in Crisis: The Plight of Displaced Children in Armed Conflict"** - This piece highlights the systemic issues faced by children who are displaced due to war, including the risks of trafficking and the long-term social implications of their experiences.

6. **"Ethics of Adoption in Times of Conflict: A Critical Review"** - A critical look at the ethical considerations surrounding adoption practices in conflict zones, examining how these actions can be influenced by nationalist and ideological motivations.

7. **"Children's Rights in War: Historical Perspectives and Contemporary Challenges"** - This article offers a historical overview of children’s rights during armed conflict, focusing on changes in policies and societal attitudes over time.

8. **"The Role of Religious Institutions in Humanitarian Crises"** - This article investigates how religious organizations may play dual roles during conflicts, both offering aid and potentially influencing adoption policies and practices.

These articles would provide additional convideo and explore similar themes regarding the situation of children in conflict zones, the politicization of humanitarian issues, and the ongoing implications of these actions on international law and ethics.

X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

00:00.000 --> 00:02.645
Nobody is surprised that President Putin is included

00:02.645 --> 00:04.485
because he's the ultimate authority.

00:04.705 --> 00:06.805
And maybe that's what the court was thinking.

00:07.585 --> 00:12.185
Uh, but the, the second person, Maria Lova Belova,

00:12.405 --> 00:13.945
you know, when I saw a picture of her, it,

00:13.965 --> 00:14.985
it just did not fit.

00:15.485 --> 00:19.505
You know, this is a very unusual person to be,

00:19.985 --> 00:21.945
indicted with such a serious crime.

00:22.485 --> 00:24.705
And, you know, the picture

00:24.855 --> 00:28.145
that she presents too is completely the opposite

00:28.165 --> 00:29.225
to that sort of thing.

00:29.845 --> 00:33.305
Uh, she's a young woman who dresses very conservatively,

00:33.575 --> 00:35.465
fashionable, maybe in the 1950s.

00:35.925 --> 00:39.465
But, you know, she does try to be appealing

00:39.465 --> 00:40.905
and fashionable,

00:41.045 --> 00:44.425
but not as a hard line criminal or anything.

00:44.485 --> 00:47.225
So I thought I should look into the background of this.

00:48.245 --> 00:51.385
Um, I'm an adjunct professor in the, department

00:51.385 --> 00:53.025
of History at Western University.

00:53.485 --> 00:56.145
And, this is, a job.

00:56.665 --> 00:59.905
I, started after retiring as a physician.

01:00.065 --> 01:03.345
I was a surgeon. So my training is really as a physician,

01:03.405 --> 01:07.225
and I look at events very, like I would look at diseases

01:07.225 --> 01:08.705
and how diseases affect people.

01:08.805 --> 01:10.905
And as far as I can see wars

01:10.905 --> 01:15.065
and, conflicts, people behave,

01:15.325 --> 01:16.865
in a very similar fashion.

01:17.005 --> 01:19.945
And this is probably one of the reasons we can look

01:19.945 --> 01:23.465
to history to see, do we, can we expect

01:23.855 --> 01:25.065
what they're going to do next?

01:25.925 --> 01:27.105
And it's

01:27.105 --> 01:30.105
because people respond to forces in,

01:30.125 --> 01:31.345
in exactly the same way.

01:31.345 --> 01:34.185
So I thought this is something I could look into,

01:34.885 --> 01:38.145
and I just used open sources, going online

01:38.885 --> 01:42.425
and, also whatever I could see commentary

01:42.435 --> 01:43.545
about this sort of thing.

01:44.485 --> 01:48.145
And what I found was really quite surprising for me.

01:48.295 --> 01:52.065
Some of it is reported and less of it is emphasized.

01:52.445 --> 01:55.905
But Maria Lova Belova came

01:55.905 --> 02:00.105
to the job in October, 2021 as Commissioner

02:00.245 --> 02:02.665
for children's rights, in Russia.

02:02.885 --> 02:07.335
And this is a presidential advisory position,

02:07.565 --> 02:11.575
totally within the, remit of the president is just

02:11.575 --> 02:13.095
to advise the president.

02:13.475 --> 02:15.655
And it was started about 20 years ago.

02:16.435 --> 02:18.775
Um, one of the early occupants

02:18.775 --> 02:22.415
of the office was a man called Paval Paval Astro.

02:22.755 --> 02:24.775
And he used, he was a lawyer

02:24.795 --> 02:27.735
and a kind of a friend of Medvedev,

02:27.835 --> 02:31.175
and he just used it as a kind of a sinecure,

02:31.725 --> 02:33.385
and it was kind of a non-office.

02:34.895 --> 02:36.355
But things changed.

02:37.435 --> 02:40.575
And it changed when Astro was fired

02:40.605 --> 02:42.495
because there was a tragedy

02:43.085 --> 02:46.535
when a children's outing sponsored by the, the, the office,

02:46.915 --> 02:50.535
ended in the deaths of about 17 children

02:51.045 --> 02:53.415
drowned at a, a resort on the Black Sea.

02:54.225 --> 02:56.565
And it was seen that it was kind of incompetent.

02:56.625 --> 02:59.405
So, a new person was put in place,

02:59.465 --> 03:01.965
and her name was Anna kva.

03:02.505 --> 03:07.165
And Anna kva came from Penza in,

03:08.145 --> 03:11.365
Russia, which is just, south of Moscow,

03:11.365 --> 03:13.125
and we'll talk about that in a minute.

03:13.785 --> 03:17.985
But Anna Kva, has,

03:18.525 --> 03:19.945
an interesting history.

03:20.045 --> 03:22.185
She was lo interested in local politics

03:22.185 --> 03:24.425
and then got switched to,

03:25.505 --> 03:29.625
national politics in Russia by declaring her adherence

03:29.965 --> 03:30.985
to Putin.

03:31.085 --> 03:34.965
And, in doing so,

03:35.345 --> 03:37.205
she was advised come to this office,

03:37.345 --> 03:38.725
but she used this office

03:38.865 --> 03:41.325
to change the whole character of the office.

03:42.135 --> 03:45.405
She's married to an orthodox priest, a priest

03:45.425 --> 03:48.605
of the Russian Orthodox Church, and she has a large family.

03:49.805 --> 03:53.745
And, she set up an advisory council within the,

03:54.615 --> 03:55.955
office.

03:56.615 --> 04:00.755
And, that office, that advisory council was stacked

04:00.755 --> 04:03.315
with either priests of the Russian Orthodox Church

04:03.735 --> 04:06.955
or with adherence of the Russian Orthodox Church.

04:07.535 --> 04:09.235
And they advised, Putin.

04:09.745 --> 04:13.445
Now, Maria Lova comes from the exact same town as

04:14.155 --> 04:16.325
Anna Kva from Penza.

04:16.785 --> 04:18.565
Ann was a local politician,

04:18.905 --> 04:21.805
and she seemed to have been a kind of an acolyte of Anna's

04:21.805 --> 04:24.285
for a while, but then she might have

04:25.125 --> 04:27.165
maneuvered herself ahead of Anna in some way.

04:27.465 --> 04:31.555
And she was, put in place in

04:31.555 --> 04:36.475
that office in October, 2021, while Anna went back

04:36.475 --> 04:39.715
and became a member of the Doon, a member of the Parliament

04:41.655 --> 04:45.715
and Maria Lova continued the exact same policies

04:46.025 --> 04:47.675
that Anna had set in place.

04:48.215 --> 04:52.875
Now, Maria Lova herself has a fascinating parallel,

04:53.455 --> 04:56.355
story to Anna kva.

04:56.405 --> 04:59.355
She's also married to a Russian Orthodox priest,

05:00.055 --> 05:03.355
and she has 18 children, quite remarkable,

05:04.035 --> 05:06.155
I think seven are biological children

05:06.295 --> 05:07.315
and the rest are adopted.

05:08.255 --> 05:12.275
And her most recent adopted child was, a boy

05:12.935 --> 05:17.195
who was taken from Marial when the city was conquered.

05:18.415 --> 05:21.995
So, Maria has the exact same profile

05:22.375 --> 05:23.875
and has the background,

05:24.535 --> 05:28.595
and they have been advising, Putin.

05:28.855 --> 05:32.335
Now, when the war started, Maria

05:33.035 --> 05:36.855
had an organization in place to follow the troops.

05:37.235 --> 05:39.895
And we know this because a meeting occurred in March,

05:40.045 --> 05:43.695
just a month after the invasion of the Ukraine,

05:44.555 --> 05:47.725
when President Putin met Maria Lova Belova.

05:48.585 --> 05:50.845
And I got this information just from the

05:50.845 --> 05:52.165
President's website.

05:52.485 --> 05:53.965
I mean, it's a remarkable website.

05:53.965 --> 05:56.845
People don't think that, you know, they think he's

05:56.845 --> 05:58.005
Got a, he's an evil man,

05:58.005 --> 06:00.725
and he's, they're up in a think he, he's be,

06:00.985 --> 06:04.485
he behaves very similarly to any modern leader,

06:04.945 --> 06:07.765
and his website is very approachable.

06:07.765 --> 06:11.725
But of course, you have to read it knowing that,

06:12.545 --> 06:14.925
his office have written it for a certain purpose.

06:16.225 --> 06:19.325
But nonetheless, this meeting, the transcript

06:19.325 --> 06:22.325
of this meeting is fully available, online.

06:23.265 --> 06:26.365
And while it's very stilted conversation,

06:27.335 --> 06:29.595
and it's designed in the Russian manner

06:29.695 --> 06:34.155
to cover all the points that they want to make at the thing,

06:34.155 --> 06:36.555
it's almost like a speech that two people,

06:37.135 --> 06:40.675
two people give a kind of a dance between President Putin

06:40.735 --> 06:41.915
and Maria Lova,

06:42.755 --> 06:46.045
and they discuss what has happened.

06:46.045 --> 06:47.605
And Maria Lova says that

06:48.305 --> 06:50.845
her organization followed the Russian army

06:51.265 --> 06:52.485
during the invasion,

06:52.905 --> 06:55.005
and they were ready to pick up children.

06:55.185 --> 06:57.485
And she tries to paint her

06:57.485 --> 06:59.285
that they picked up neglected children.

06:59.825 --> 07:01.845
But it's kind of farcical what she said.

07:01.945 --> 07:05.045
Uh, she said, we, we picked up children in the fields,

07:05.305 --> 07:08.045
in stations and in, towns,

07:08.725 --> 07:10.425
and she implies they were abandoned.

07:11.365 --> 07:14.225
And then she said, she does it for their, for their good.

07:14.985 --> 07:18.565
So we did it in case they needed eyeglasses or dental work.

07:19.305 --> 07:22.005
Now, you know, it's absurd in the middle of a war

07:22.025 --> 07:23.965
and in the destruction that was going on there,

07:24.355 --> 07:25.645
that sort of nonsense.

07:26.545 --> 07:29.965
Um, and the rest of the interview continues.

07:30.465 --> 07:32.125
Uh, but interestingly, Maria

07:32.715 --> 07:36.965
Lova Belova then asked President Putin to reverse

07:37.145 --> 07:41.765
or to sign a decree that would allow Russians

07:42.185 --> 07:45.205
to adopt international babies or children.

07:46.825 --> 07:49.045
And this is odd, you know, why is that in there?

07:49.505 --> 07:53.965
And then at the end, there's a description from both

07:53.965 --> 07:57.525
of them about what the ratification of these

07:58.595 --> 08:01.375
adopted, children will be.

08:01.795 --> 08:04.975
And they have a three phase, ratification program,

08:05.585 --> 08:06.855
which everybody has talked about,

08:06.995 --> 08:11.775
but it's clearly outlined in the President's website

08:12.035 --> 08:13.095
in this conversation

08:13.095 --> 08:15.655
between Maria Lova Bulova and President.

08:16.495 --> 08:20.485
I would think it's probably the, basic

08:21.725 --> 08:25.645
document that's used to indict them for this war crime,

08:26.425 --> 08:27.845
for this crime against humanity.

08:28.265 --> 08:31.125
Why this cha, decree to adopt the children?

08:32.375 --> 08:35.515
So adoption is very much part of this story,

08:36.435 --> 08:40.155
and it actually goes back to the 1990s.

08:41.595 --> 08:46.295
Uh, what happened with the collapse of the, Soviet,

08:46.325 --> 08:50.615
rule in Russia that not only,

08:50.675 --> 08:52.895
did rule collapse, but actually funding collapsed.

08:53.035 --> 08:55.250
You know, pensions disappeared and all this,

08:55.305 --> 08:57.045
and there was a huge problem in Russia.

08:57.665 --> 09:00.125
But the greatest problems were for institutions

09:00.125 --> 09:01.525
that were publicly funded.

09:02.365 --> 09:06.145
And one of the institutions were, orphanages.

09:07.065 --> 09:11.605
Now, some orphanages found a way out by offering children

09:11.825 --> 09:13.525
for international adoption.

09:13.825 --> 09:17.045
And there was a market in the 1990s

09:17.625 --> 09:19.525
for Russian children to be adopted.

09:20.385 --> 09:22.365
Uh, and it was particularly popular in America.

09:23.025 --> 09:26.245
And, this story came to a head

09:26.755 --> 09:30.205
when a United States couple had adopted two children

09:31.425 --> 09:33.795
from Russia, a boy and a girl,

09:33.975 --> 09:35.435
and the girl was a tiny bit older.

09:36.255 --> 09:41.075
And during their time, adapting in the United States,

09:41.835 --> 09:45.335
the American family became concerned that the girl might try

09:45.335 --> 09:48.895
and do harm to the boy who was not, a blood relative.

09:48.925 --> 09:51.375
They were both adopted at the same time,

09:53.115 --> 09:55.975
and they went to psychiatrists with and brought the girl.

09:55.995 --> 09:59.015
And some psychiatrists foolishly acknowledged

09:59.015 --> 10:00.255
that this was a risk.

10:01.515 --> 10:04.335
And they went to more psychiatrists tried to get help,

10:04.355 --> 10:05.815
and they ran out of health insurance,

10:06.515 --> 10:10.305
and they had this terrible concern that the girl was going

10:10.305 --> 10:11.705
to do harm to the boy.

10:12.165 --> 10:14.425
And they were staying up all night. They were losing sleep.

10:14.485 --> 10:17.385
And so they thought the only solution was

10:17.405 --> 10:19.065
to bring the girl back

10:19.285 --> 10:21.665
to the orphanage in Russia, which they did.

10:23.125 --> 10:25.785
And it made huge headlines.

10:25.825 --> 10:28.105
I don't know if you remember it in the time, it was just,

10:28.245 --> 10:31.585
cons portrayed as a callous Americans

10:32.165 --> 10:33.585
and all the sort of thing,

10:33.605 --> 10:37.285
but in Russia, there was deep,

10:38.755 --> 10:40.255
what is it regret?

10:40.555 --> 10:42.695
And this feeling that, you know,

10:42.695 --> 10:44.135
they had let their own children down.

10:44.865 --> 10:48.705
And, Kiel, who was,

10:48.705 --> 10:52.345
who is now patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church

10:52.365 --> 10:56.305
for Moscow and Allus, put out a, a,

10:57.065 --> 11:00.905
a missive saying that he wanted Russian Orthodox families

11:01.005 --> 11:03.775
to adopt Russian children

11:03.775 --> 11:06.215
because they had no history prior to that

11:06.275 --> 11:07.695
of family adoptions.

11:08.435 --> 11:10.945
Their history is actually of using orphanages

11:11.285 --> 11:13.185
for children in that situation

11:13.565 --> 11:15.425
and not using family adoptions.

11:15.845 --> 11:17.825
But Carol said, now is an opportunity

11:17.845 --> 11:20.985
for orthodox Christians to adopt these children

11:21.005 --> 11:22.705
and bring them up as orthodox Christians.

11:23.595 --> 11:27.975
Um, at the same time, Putin,

11:29.225 --> 11:31.005
issued a decree saying

11:31.005 --> 11:34.005
that no Russian child could be adopted

11:34.185 --> 11:37.965
by an international couple, and I think built into it,

11:38.265 --> 11:41.325
or it may have been a prior law, there is a law

11:41.325 --> 11:44.725
that Russians cannot adopt international children either.

11:46.615 --> 11:51.385
And that's where the request from Maria Lova Belova

11:51.385 --> 11:54.285
came to sign a decree allowing

11:54.325 --> 11:55.805
Russians to adopt the children.

11:57.125 --> 12:01.535
But for, unfortunately, for Maria Lova and bva,

12:01.535 --> 12:03.335
and for Putin, it's a critical

12:04.285 --> 12:06.335
flaw in any defense they might try,

12:06.765 --> 12:08.495
because they could defend themselves

12:08.495 --> 12:09.575
by saying, these are not Russian.

12:09.625 --> 12:12.455
These are not Ukrainian children, they're Russian children,

12:13.225 --> 12:15.965
and we are just looking after our own.

12:16.185 --> 12:21.005
And in interestingly, the actions that are,

12:21.515 --> 12:26.045
that would make, a, an international criminal court,

12:26.745 --> 12:28.285
indictment

12:29.225 --> 12:32.005
or a crime against humanity only involves moving

12:32.025 --> 12:33.285
the children over a border.

12:35.305 --> 12:38.275
None of the other actions are actually illegal.

12:38.665 --> 12:41.475
It's, it's astonishing that we allow this sort of thing.

12:41.495 --> 12:45.435
But, forced adoption could happen within the,

12:46.325 --> 12:48.665
a country within your own country.

12:48.685 --> 12:50.265
And it's not a crime against humanity.

12:50.925 --> 12:53.505
Moving the children across a border is,

12:53.845 --> 12:56.145
and by acknowledging that they had to have a decree,

12:56.425 --> 12:58.305
I think they've said, these are international children,

12:58.725 --> 13:00.545
and now we need a special decree.

13:00.605 --> 13:01.945
So I think it's a problem for them.

13:02.145 --> 13:04.385
I think it was politicized in the 1990s,

13:04.645 --> 13:08.265
and now with the indictments, it's irreversibly politicized.

13:08.485 --> 13:12.695
So, you know, it's now a matter of honor either to

13:13.295 --> 13:18.205
continue with the, plan to, move the children

13:18.465 --> 13:22.325
and to bring them up as adhe Russian adherence

13:22.325 --> 13:25.205
of the Orthodox Church and Russian nationalists.

13:26.595 --> 13:28.455
So that's irreversibly politicized.

13:29.005 --> 13:33.425
However, the, I think

13:33.425 --> 13:36.585
that was never the intent that it become politicized.

13:36.905 --> 13:39.225
I think they just didn't count in their calculations.

13:40.685 --> 13:44.225
Um, Putin issued a dec

13:44.385 --> 13:48.025
a call just recently, to

13:48.875 --> 13:52.295
women in Russia to have at least eight children.

13:53.455 --> 13:57.055
He thinks that's a normal Russian family now

13:57.195 --> 13:59.455
to have eight biological children,

14:00.085 --> 14:01.375
it's quite, quite extraordinary.

14:01.715 --> 14:04.415
It only made it kind of a footnote because it's so absurd.

14:05.475 --> 14:07.575
Um, but that's his mindset.

14:09.015 --> 14:10.955
And I think this thing actually,

14:11.215 --> 14:12.835
and you look at the war, it's going,

14:13.365 --> 14:16.075
we're looking at it sometimes in the wrong way.

14:16.085 --> 14:18.235
We're looking at it in terms of a strong man

14:18.295 --> 14:22.075
and, blotting out opposition, you know,

14:22.175 --> 14:23.315
armies fighting each other.

14:24.055 --> 14:28.545
And yet behind it all is some weird sort of

14:29.195 --> 14:34.065
proto religious belief that Russia,

14:34.125 --> 14:35.865
is greater than its current borders,

14:36.415 --> 14:40.425
that the Russian Orthodox Church is the religion of Russia,

14:41.285 --> 14:44.505
that it is naturally and socially conservative.

14:45.285 --> 14:50.035
Uh, and Putin himself made an agreement with Carol in

14:51.105 --> 14:54.085
the early two thousands that this was the way it would be,

14:54.505 --> 14:57.165
and they've both been playing off each other.

14:57.505 --> 14:59.245
So Kiel supports the war.

15:00.105 --> 15:02.965
Uh, Kiel, recently,

15:05.355 --> 15:07.755
sanctioned a priest, a Russian Orthodox priest

15:07.775 --> 15:11.755
who conducted the ceremony for Alexi Navalny,

15:11.815 --> 15:15.115
at his death, his funeral ceremony,

15:15.115 --> 15:16.555
with no reason other than that.

15:17.055 --> 15:19.835
Um, he, this man had not spoken out against the war,

15:19.855 --> 15:21.955
but Carol has also sanctioned many,

15:21.955 --> 15:23.755
many Russian Orthodox priests

15:23.895 --> 15:26.435
who have spoken out in church against the war,

15:26.935 --> 15:28.355
and they've been silenced.

15:29.015 --> 15:31.635
So there is a parallel going on. At the same time.

15:32.305 --> 15:36.675
President Putin, got involved very early on in kind

15:36.675 --> 15:39.595
of weird social things prior to the,

15:39.615 --> 15:41.275
the various wars that he's had.

15:41.655 --> 15:45.435
Um, he took on the punks and gaze for some reason.

15:45.635 --> 15:49.875
I mean, why would he do this as a pragmatic, politician?

15:49.875 --> 15:53.155
There's no reason. The only reason is that he's an adherent

15:53.255 --> 15:55.075
to this kind of belief.

15:55.415 --> 16:00.155
So I think President Putin is surrounded by a coie of,

16:00.855 --> 16:02.955
adherence of the Russian Orthodox Church

16:03.095 --> 16:06.315
who are advising him, and they're strong nationalists,

16:07.015 --> 16:10.355
and they have a, a kind of a philosophy that's,

16:10.355 --> 16:13.475
whose arguments we have to defeat rather than trying

16:13.655 --> 16:16.915
to defeat them militarily in this particular story.

16:17.335 --> 16:21.635
Uh, I think part of what I said there is that we do have

16:21.635 --> 16:25.355
to counter some of the, arguments

16:25.585 --> 16:28.595
that are coming from, the church.

16:28.775 --> 16:31.235
And now in the west, in western liberalism,

16:31.245 --> 16:33.235
we've given churches free reign.

16:33.805 --> 16:35.755
We're no longer dominated by churches,

16:35.855 --> 16:37.875
but at the same time, we're hesitant to argue

16:37.875 --> 16:39.755
with them, even at home.

16:40.295 --> 16:44.035
And I think we need to take a stronger line on this.

16:44.585 --> 16:47.835
This is a church that's getting deeply involved in crimes,

16:48.535 --> 16:50.075
and they need to,

16:50.975 --> 16:53.635
and I think many of the, a adherents don't want this.

16:54.145 --> 16:55.635
They, they do not want this.

16:55.635 --> 16:57.355
They want to be just ordinary religious people.

16:57.355 --> 17:01.235
And I know I have several, friends who have explained

17:01.235 --> 17:03.635
to me about, Russian Orthodox life,

17:03.735 --> 17:06.715
and it's a very conservative and religious life.

17:07.615 --> 17:08.715
So that's one aspect.

17:08.775 --> 17:10.995
The second aspect is that I think the things

17:10.995 --> 17:14.155
that have been set in motion are going to continue

17:14.215 --> 17:15.875
for a long, long time.

17:16.935 --> 17:19.235
If you think that we've only indicted the two leaders

17:19.415 --> 17:21.235
of this conspiracy,

17:21.895 --> 17:24.995
the actual conspiracy takes an enormous number

17:25.055 --> 17:26.915
of people to effect.

17:27.455 --> 17:30.595
You've got all the different levels below,

17:30.695 --> 17:34.315
you've got the directors of orphanages and transit camps.

17:34.315 --> 17:37.875
You've got, the commissars in local places

17:37.905 --> 17:40.755
that have then bundled the children

17:40.935 --> 17:42.035
off to different families.

17:42.055 --> 17:46.995
And even the adoptive parents, every one of them are at risk

17:47.095 --> 17:48.795
of indictment under the same

17:49.065 --> 17:50.065
Charge.

17:50.505 --> 17:52.485
And they should look to what happened

17:52.485 --> 17:53.565
after the Second World War.

17:53.565 --> 17:55.485
There was a period when we didn't do very much.

17:55.575 --> 17:58.805
There was initial war crimes, then the period not,

17:58.865 --> 18:00.645
and then suddenly there was a resurgence.

18:01.465 --> 18:02.965
And I'm rem reminded

18:02.965 --> 18:06.205
that the London Metropolitan Police used to have

18:07.145 --> 18:10.965
an international, crimes, war crimes

18:11.025 --> 18:12.765
and crimes against humanity unit.

18:12.905 --> 18:15.045
And they disbanded it in the late nineties,

18:16.155 --> 18:20.215
and they have reopened it since the Ukrainian, crisis.

18:21.395 --> 18:25.735
And their last indictment was against a man called Anthony

18:26.285 --> 18:30.375
Sauk, who was a Belarusian, who,

18:30.385 --> 18:31.495
ended up in England.

18:31.995 --> 18:34.735
And during the Second World War, as a young boy

18:35.315 --> 18:39.505
in a village, he personally killed a Jewish family,

18:40.975 --> 18:43.035
and he was accused of this crime

18:43.175 --> 18:45.035
and convicted 50 years later.

18:45.695 --> 18:47.225
So that's the lesson.

18:47.545 --> 18:51.985
I think that this indictment has one for the children

18:52.165 --> 18:53.945
who have been taken forcibly

18:53.965 --> 18:55.625
and do not want to be where they are.

18:56.055 --> 18:58.875
They know that this is a crime

18:59.095 --> 19:01.755
and that this will eventually be sorted

19:01.755 --> 19:02.835
and the people are watching.

19:03.925 --> 19:06.185
Um, the second thing is, the people

19:06.185 --> 19:09.185
who have conducted this crime know that they will never,

19:09.255 --> 19:10.465
ever be free from it.

19:12.345 --> 19:14.645
It will, it's a, it's a potential liability

19:14.785 --> 19:16.685
for them forever.

19:17.425 --> 19:21.645
If somebody says you adopted knowingly a Ukrainian child

19:21.745 --> 19:25.895
and you go on holiday in a country that, agrees

19:25.895 --> 19:28.815
with the ICC, you, I think could be arrested.

19:29.935 --> 19:33.075
Now, at the moment, nobody's going after low profile people.

19:33.905 --> 19:35.905
I mean, people want a resolution to this.

19:36.525 --> 19:39.705
Uh, and possibly the best resolution will be an end

19:39.705 --> 19:42.105
to the war on return of all the, the children.

19:42.765 --> 19:47.155
And that's probably what the Ukrainians are negotiating for.

19:47.455 --> 19:48.835
But I think this is a powerful tool.

Faculti AI can make mistakes