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Circumcision and Medicine in Modern Turkey

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Oyman Basaran discusses how the expansion of modern medicine in Turkey transformed young boys’ experiences of circumcision.

Image courtesy of interviewee. November 21, 2024

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This video discusses a research project focused on masculinity in Turkey, particularly the cultural practices of military service and male circumcision. The author explores how these rites of passage relate to notions of masculinity and medicalization, emphasizing that both practices are significant milestones in the lives of boys in Turkey.

The project investigates the historical transformation of male circumcision and its medicalization since the 1960s, when it transitioned from private home settings to hospitals. It argues that this process, influenced by state and market forces, is not linear, as often portrayed, but fraught with tensions and ambivalences from both families and medical professionals.

The author employs ethnographic methods, including interviews with circumcised individuals and observations of circumcision events, to gain insight into the complexities and challenges faced by families and medical practitioners. The findings reveal that the medicalization of circumcision is met with skepticism from families, particularly regarding the use of medical instruments and anesthesia, which causes anxiety about the duration and nature of the procedure.

The study also examines the emotional and professional ambivalences experienced by health officials and medical doctors, who struggle to balance delivering proper care while also navigating family expectations and societal stigmas associated with circumcision practices. Ultimately, the research aims to contribute to a more nuanced understanding of medicalization in Turkish society, highlighting the interactions between cultural practices, health care, and masculinity.

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Here are five key points derived from the video regarding the exploration of masculinity and male circumcision in Turkey:

1. **Research Focus on Masculinity and Rites of Passage**: The author is interested in understanding masculinity in Turkey through two specific rites of passage: compulsory military service and male circumcision. These practices are seen as significant milestones in boys' lives and are tied to notions of masculinity and social identity.

2. **Transitional Dynamics of Male Circumcision**: The study tracks the shift of male circumcision from private home settings to public hospital environments, particularly following state intervention starting in the 1960s. The work examines this transition, highlighting the evolving cultural and medical perceptions surrounding circumcision as both a traditional practice and a medical procedure.

3. **Ethnographic and Historical Approach**: The research employs both ethnographic methods (such as participant observation and interviews with circumcised individuals) and historical analysis of government documents and publications to explore the changing practices and perceptions of male circumcision over time.

4. **Conflict and Ambivalence in Medicalization**: The author finds that the transition to medical circumcision is not straightforward. Families were often ambivalent or even resistant to the intervention of medical professionals, leading to tensions around care practices, the use of medical instruments, and the control exerted by health authorities.

5. **Intersection of Socio-economic Factors and Medical Practices**: The study also considers how socio-economic factors and class impact the experience of circumcision. It reveals disparities between different class settings and the emotional struggles of medical professionals in delivering care, particularly in overcrowded and resource-limited environments. The narrative peels back assumptions about the relationship between medicalization and professional authority in the convideo of cultural practices like circumcision.

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Here are some key quotes extracted from the video, capturing the central themes and ideas presented:

1. **On Military Service and Masculinity**: "I was always interested in the question of masculinity in Turkey... military service and its relationship with masculinity and homosexuality."

2. **On Male Circumcision as a Rite of Passage**: "Male circumcision is performed so kids can, tend to be old enough to remember the event. It is celebrated... seen as a milestone in boys' lives."

3. **On the Transformation of Male Circumcision**: "I want to understand how heme masculinity has been established through these practices... the historical transformation of the practice itself."

4. **On Medicalization and State Influence**: "I want to understand how this practice has come under the influence of medical power through the state, starting in the 1960s... the site of male circumcision moved from homes to hospitals."

5. **On Research Methodology**: "My method is an ethnographic and historical study... looking at official documents, collected newspaper articles, and scientific publications on male circumcision from the 1920s up to the present."

6. **On the Narrative of Modernity**: "The key finding was that they described this history as a smooth transition from tradition to modernity... this narrative was very... misleading."

7. **On Interviews and Personal Experiences**: "I established my own archive by conducting interviews with the circumcised themselves... these interviews enable me to portray a different story."

8. **On Conflicts in Medicalization**: "Rather than a smooth transition, the process was filled with conflicts... families were suspicious of new medical actors."

9. **On the Professional Ambivalence**: "Medical actors were ambivalent about the process for various reasons... their desire for medicalization should not be taken for granted."

10. **On the Complexity of Care and Family Dynamics**: "Families had a different non-medical understanding of what care was... there was some tension between families and health offices."

11. **On Emotional Investment in Medicalization**: "We should pay attention to emotional, effective investment in medicalization... to understand the complexities involved."

12. **On Social Class Dynamics**: "The doctors wanted to perform good care... but the conditions do not allow them to deliver what they would consider proper care."

These quotes encapsulate the key ideas regarding masculinity, medicalization, cultural practices, and the complexities involved in male circumcision within Turkish society.

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Was always interested in the question

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of masculinity in Turkey.

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And, and my first project look at military service

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and the relation between military service,

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which is compulsory in Turkey and,

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and its relationship with masculinity and, and,

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and homosexuality.

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And after that project, I want to explore another, rite

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of passage, which is male circumcision.

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And male circumcision is performed

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between the ages of generally ages of three and, 11.

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Uh, so, kids can, tend to be,

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old enough to remember the, the, the event.

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It is a, it is, it's a celebrated public event,

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and it is seen as a milestone in, in, in, in boys' lives.

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And so I want to understand, you know,

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after working on military service, I want to understand

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this, which is, as I said, which is compulsory in Turkey.

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And after the age of 1818, I want to look at this other,

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practice and,

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and try to understand how heme masculinity has been

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established through these practices.

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Though I should say that my book end up,

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speaking to mainly other literature for practical reasons,

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because I end up focusing on, on,

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on practitioners themselves circumcised themselves.

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And although, but, gender I use, I still use gender,

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and masculinity as an unical category to understand

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these, changes in, in, in, in,

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in male, in male circumcision.

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And, and, and, and how, and,

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and to make sense of this, of this historical transformation

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of, of, of the practice itself.

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I look at the, I look at the practitioners

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because I want to understand

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the medicalization process itself.

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What I mean by is that how male circumcision as a cultural

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practice, religious practice, you know, today,

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families tend to perf, tend to have their kids,

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so boys circumcised for religious reasons, health reasons.

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And, and, so I want to understand how, this

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practice has come under the, has come under the influence

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of medical power through first the state,

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Turkey state starting in the 1960s,

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and then in the 1990s through especially hospitals,

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and, and, and,

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and the site of male circumcision has moved from homes

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where traditionally circumcisions were being performed,

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in these private spaces to hospitals over,

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over time. And I want to

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Understand the logics behind the state intervention

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in the practice, and then,

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and then the involvement of these more market forces,

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especially private hospitals in more recent decay in their,

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in their involvement in this, in this, in, in this practice.

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My method is that I, this is an ethnographic and, and,

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and historical study of male circumcision and,

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and my male goal to understand the, the, the medicalization

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of male circumcision starting in the, in the early,

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early century up to the, up to the present.

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And the, so it is, it's an, it's, it's,

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it is partly historical project

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and it's partly ethnographic, study.

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So I did archival research in, and,

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and I look at the government, documents,

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official documents, and,

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and, collected newspaper articles,

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scientific publications on male circumcision from the 1920s

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up to the present, although male circumcision became

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to be medicalized to some extent in late Otto Empire

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as well, 19 19th century as well.

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And so all these, all these documents enabled me

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to make sense of how these powerful actors,

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like medical professionals, government officials

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represent this history, represent male circumcision,

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how they discussed male circumcision,

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how these national elites

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and why these nation, nation elites were interested in this,

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in, in, in this process.

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And what I saw was that you, so the key funding,

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key funding was that, you know,

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they described male circum this history

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as this smooth transition from tradition to modernity.

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It is, it is like this narrative was a, was was a very,

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very, very, very, very linear, negative.

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So in order to de authorize this official negative,

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I also establish my own archive,

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by conducting interviews with the circumcised themselves.

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And, and these, these, these circums these,

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interviews me, enable me

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to portray different story.

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What I found is that, you know, the, the,

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rather than a smooth transition, this, the, the,

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the transition, for example,

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from more traditional circumcision to to,

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to medical circumcision starting in the 1960s.

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Sixties was, little with conflicts was a, was a, was a,

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was tension, field process.

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And, for example, rather than so many

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families first did not really welcome these new,

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state actors, medical actors.

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And, and they were suspicious of them for various reasons.

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They did not like the necessarily like the,

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tools they were using because they have professionals

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introduced, these medical tools,

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medical instruments like local anesthesia sutures

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to the, to the practice.

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And not all families were, were happy, happy with that.

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And I also, realized that there was a conflict

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between these, these, traditional circumcisions and,

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and, and, and, and health offices

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and the state actors, medical actors.

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And I also conducted, I, I also conducted parts observation.

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I attended dozens of, circumcisions

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and circumcision festivals where I had a chance to see

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in contemporary landscape

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to observe the interactions between doctors and,

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and families and, and,

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and kids in different class settings.

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I attended circumcisions in more low income working class

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settings and also medical class settings.

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And which enable me to make sense of this, of, of how class,

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shapes, these, services and, and,

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and, circumcision, circumcision practices and claim.

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Is that, is, is that, so it aim to enrich our understanding

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of social understanding, automatization process itself

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in more dominant view

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of medicalization in the public imagination

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and academic writings.

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They tend to presume this straightforward link

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between medical professionals and medicalization itself.

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You know, like, okay, there's big pharma,

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there's medical professionals.

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Of course, they're interested in this, in medicals, in,

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in medicalizing this process because,

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because they wanna extend their power, this new,

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new use new avenues to, to make profits for example, and,

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and, to expand their medic, professional power.

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But I claim that this desire

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for medicalization should not be taken for, for granted

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because my research over

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and over again show that, medical, medical actors,

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were many of them were hesitant, hesitated to,

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to, to start performing circumcision.

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Even if they did, they, they,

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they were ambivalent about the pro profit process for,

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for, for various reasons.

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So, and then I look at other, other case studies as well in,

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in other, other, other context.

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And, and, and,

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and then I, I, my, my argument was part, part

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of my argument was that we should really,

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we should pay attention to how

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and why medical professionals make investment,

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emotional, effective investment, professional investment

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in, in medicalization.

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So let's not take this for granted the link between these,

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between medical professions and their, their tasks.

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And in order to be able to do that, you know,

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I'm a sociologist social scientist.

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I, that's the, that's, that's the other contribution

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that I am making is that I, I realize that the tools that,

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social sciences provide about the subjectivities

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subject, the question of subjectivity in general

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and subjectivity for medical professionals in particular

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were rich, but not enough, which enough.

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And, and I turned to psychosis and,

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and I combine psych psychoanalysis and,

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and which is a psycho theories, which,

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which provide us tools to make sense of, rich emotional

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and inner, composition, a composition of, of us

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as, as subjects.

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And so surgical, theories.

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And, and I develop this psychologically

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informed psych sociological notion of ambivalences.

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And, and so that would be my, my other other contribution,

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other other contribution to, to, to the studies on, on,

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on medic, on medicalization.

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First we had itinerary, circumcised circumcisions,

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we can call them village circumcisions.

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That was before 1960s.

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And, and those circumcisions were not medical actors were

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not, educated in, in, well,

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we did not receive medi medical education.

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They were trained by apprenticeship.

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Their skills were handed down from their fathers.

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And, and, and so, so there's this, tradition that,

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that went on two centuries.

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And, and, and then we, we see the, the introduction.

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We see the, we see that that health officers,

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starting in 1960s came to the scene

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and they wanted to gain control over,

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over this jurisdiction, over this, over over,

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male circumcision.

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And, and then

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after that, doctors, doctors,

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in the starting 1990s, especially not doctors at, at,

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at private hospitals, wanted to,

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take this control away from, health officers and, and,

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and redirect male circumcision services to this hospital.

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So this story seems like a very linear story,

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but it is per

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performing circumcision was also stigmatized in the eyes

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of medical actors.

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It is not exactly seen as a proper medical task.

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And it was associated with these itinerary circumcisions,

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which were each were stigmatized, as I said, by, by,

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for example, health offices.

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They did not want, when they arrived, in their,

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in their, assigned, places all around, all

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around the country, they, they were worried

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that they would be mistaken for itinerary circumcisions.

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They wanted to distinguish themselves from the,

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from these circumcisions, but also, and,

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but also they wanted to, they, they want to,

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gain approval from families themselves

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and families who were, who had been very much accustomed

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to Itin X circumcisions.

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So they find themselves heart of this, find themselves

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as ambivalent position like, okay, we wanted to

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be seen as circumcised,

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but also we don't want to be mistaken for, right?

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Circumcised, you see, is this negotiated space,

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in the, at the heart of Medicalization process.

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Uh, and, and, and,

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and I'm looking at couple chapters of my book I looking, I,

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i, it, it looked, I look at how

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how they negotiated this space itself

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and families themselves were, they,

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they had a different non non-medical understanding of

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what care was.

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And, and for example, van Duct, van Health office, sorry,

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not doctors van hat office introduced local

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anesthesia in 1960s.

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The, the duration of the operation,

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extended in the sense that it, it was taken much longer

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to perform circumcision

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because you had to perform, you had

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to apply local anesthesia and then wait all bit.

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And that really creates,

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create a tension anxiety on the part

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of not only a kid, but also families.

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Because in general, this is an anxiety

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generating practice, right?

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From the perspective of families, they wanted this process

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as quick as possible.

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They wanted, they want the circumcised to,

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to perform this as quickly as possible.

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So they were, there was some tension between,

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between some families and, and,

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and health offices and health offices.

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And of course, they didn't want to go back

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to the old techniques, right?

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And then, because they would be, they would be seen

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as itinerary circumcisions.

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That's what they, that's what they were worried about.

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But also they were, they faced this dilemma, okay,

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these families were not really

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accepting me, what I'm gonna do.

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So here we see kind of like negotiated, space.

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I'm looking at this ambivalences that, that,

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medical professionals, experience, in their,

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in their, professions.

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And, and,

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and as I, as I give the example of, for example, you know,

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the, the example of health health officers, how,

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how they wanted to be well respected in communities,

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but also also wanted

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to d distinguish themselves from Itin circumcised.

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Another example I can give is this, this, doctors,

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this is more contemporary, periods.

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Uh, in, in recent case, as I mentioned, they were,

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they are now performing circumcision at, at, at hospitals

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and especially in,

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working class neighborhoods, low income neighborhoods.

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They perform circumcision at very overcrowded hospitals

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and, for various reasons,

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and I go into that, process, the privatization,

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ization, et cetera.

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So, this, the, the, and this over.

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And, and they, so these doctors wanted to perform,

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good psych, good care, both, physical care

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and psychological care, for, for, for kids,

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but also the conditions do not allow them really to,

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to prop, to, to, to deliver

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what they would consider proper care.

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So there's this tension between what they deem see

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as ideal care and what they can provide in practice.

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How do they deal with this?

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They, most of them blame, families themselves.

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There is another story about, you know,

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with ization in Turkey who families both stigmatized

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and, and, and, and,

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and, doctors invoke these stereotypes

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about these families.

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Yeah, they don't really care about their children.

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They're using these services

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because these services are sponsored by municipalities.

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Families, look, income families don't pay anything

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for these, for these services.

301
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But doctors, you know, say like, yeah,

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they can actually afford this, but they are doing this

303
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because they're, you know, free orders, right?

304
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So, so, so I'm looking at how this anxiety

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anxieties about care, about status, right?

306
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In the case of health offices, for example,

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about their professional studies, how do they,

308
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how do they navigate this terrain,

309
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of this, this terrain, this, this ambivalences around,

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around status and, and, and, and care.

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And what are the, what are some of the, emotional,

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pressure that they, they experience?

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We are serious about medical care.

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If you wanna, if you want, if you want, public health,

315
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and, and if you want, pro if you want

316
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to provide, proper, medical care for,

317
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for the population, whatever population,

318
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whereas now in Tokyo, other, other countries, this,

319
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this kinds of attempts for monopoly,

320
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because all these medical actors tried

321
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to monopolize this field and,

322
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and generated new forms of inequalities easily

323
00:17:11.845 --> 00:17:15.185
health officers and it itiner circumcisions could

324
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collaborate because Itin circumcised in 1960s, for example,

325
00:17:18.665 --> 00:17:20.545
wanted to, and they learn medical techniques.

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They incorporated medical techniques

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because they, they, they also thought

328
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that this is really good for kids.

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And, and, and they were willing

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to learn these, these techniques.

331
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But the state intervention is top down state intervention.

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This professional, ambition, ed,

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00:17:37.025 --> 00:17:38.145
this kind of collaboration.

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00:17:39.085 --> 00:17:42.625
So this kind of desires for monopoly, desires

335
00:17:42.625 --> 00:17:46.465
for professional control can be harmful, for,

336
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for providing proper, medical care, for,

337
00:17:51.885 --> 00:17:52.545
for the society.

Exploring Masculinity Through Military Service and Circumcision in Turkey

00:00:00 - Was always interested in the question of masculinity in Turkey. And, and my first project look at military service and the relation between military service, which is compulsory in Turkey and, and its relationship with masculinity and, and, and homosexuality. And after that project, I want to explore another, rite of passage, which is male circumcision. And male circumcision is performed

00:00:35 - so, kids can, tend to be, old enough to remember the, the, the event. It is a, it is, it's a celebrated public event, and it is seen as a milestone in, in, in, in boys' lives. And so I want to understand, you know, after working on military service, I want to understand

00:01:05 - And after the age of 1818, I want to look at this other, practice and, and try to understand how heme masculinity has been established through these practices. Though I should say that my book end up, speaking to mainly other literature for practical reasons, because I end up focusing on, on, on practitioners themselves circumcised themselves.

Transformations of Male Circumcision in Turkey: Masculinity and Medicalization

00:01:36 - and masculinity as an unical category to understand these, changes in, in, in, in, in male, in male circumcision. And, and, and, and how, and, and to make sense of this, of this historical transformation of, of, of the practice itself. I look at the, I look at the practitioners because I want to understand

00:02:07 - What I mean by is that how male circumcision as a cultural practice, religious practice, you know, today, families tend to perf, tend to have their kids, so boys circumcised for religious reasons, health reasons. And, and, so I want to understand how, this practice has come under the, has come under the influence of medical power through first the state, Turkey state starting in the 1960s,

00:02:43 - and, and, and, and the site of male circumcision has moved from homes where traditionally circumcisions were being performed, in these private spaces to hospitals over, over time. And I want to Understand the logics behind the state intervention in the practice, and then, and then the involvement of these more market forces, especially private hospitals in more recent decay in their,

Ethnographic and Historical Insights on Male Circumcision

00:03:14 - My method is that I, this is an ethnographic and, and, and historical study of male circumcision and, and my male goal to understand the, the, the medicalization of male circumcision starting in the, in the early, early century up to the, up to the present. And the, so it is, it's an, it's, it's, it is partly historical project and it's partly ethnographic, study.

00:03:47 - and I look at the government, documents, official documents, and, and, collected newspaper articles, scientific publications on male circumcision from the 1920s up to the present, although male circumcision became to be medicalized to some extent in late Otto Empire as well, 19 19th century as well. And so all these, all these documents enabled me to make sense of how these powerful actors,

00:04:19 - represent this history, represent male circumcision, how they discussed male circumcision, how these national elites and why these nation, nation elites were interested in this, in, in, in this process. And what I saw was that you, so the key funding, key funding was that, you know, they described male circum this history as this smooth transition from tradition to modernity. It is, it is like this narrative was a, was was a very,

Documenting Conflicts: Transition from Traditional to Medical Circumcision

00:04:53 - So in order to de authorize this official negative, I also establish my own archive, by conducting interviews with the circumcised themselves. And, and these, these, these circums these, interviews me, enable me to portray different story. What I found is that, you know, the, the, rather than a smooth transition, this, the, the,

00:05:22 - from more traditional circumcision to to, to medical circumcision starting in the 1960s. Sixties was, little with conflicts was a, was a, was a, was tension, field process. And, for example, rather than so many families first did not really welcome these new, state actors, medical actors. And, and they were suspicious of them for various reasons.

00:05:54 - tools they were using because they have professionals introduced, these medical tools, medical instruments like local anesthesia sutures to the, to the practice. And not all families were, were happy, happy with that. And I also, realized that there was a conflict between these, these, traditional circumcisions and, and, and, and, and health offices and the state actors, medical actors. And I also conducted, I, I also conducted parts observation.

Class Dynamics in Circumcision Practices

00:06:28 - and circumcision festivals where I had a chance to see in contemporary landscape to observe the interactions between doctors and, and families and, and, and kids in different class settings. I attended circumcisions in more low income working class settings and also medical class settings. And which enable me to make sense of this, of, of how class,

00:07:03 - and, circumcision, circumcision practices and claim. Is that, is, is that, so it aim to enrich our understanding of social understanding, automatization process itself in more dominant view of medicalization in the public imagination and academic writings. They tend to presume this straightforward link between medical professionals and medicalization itself.

00:07:29 - there's medical professionals. Of course, they're interested in this, in medicals, in, in medicalizing this process because, because they wanna extend their power, this new, new use new avenues to, to make profits for example, and, and, to expand their medic, professional power. But I claim that this desire for medicalization should not be taken for, for granted because my research over and over again show that, medical, medical actors,

Exploring Ambivalence in Medicalization and Subjectivity

00:08:06 - to, to start performing circumcision. Even if they did, they, they, they were ambivalent about the pro profit process for, for, for various reasons. So, and then I look at other, other case studies as well in, in other, other, other context. And, and, and, and then I, I, my, my argument was part, part of my argument was that we should really, we should pay attention to how

00:08:36 - emotional, effective investment, professional investment in, in medicalization. So let's not take this for granted the link between these, between medical professions and their, their tasks. And in order to be able to do that, you know, I'm a sociologist social scientist. I, that's the, that's, that's the other contribution that I am making is that I, I realize that the tools that, social sciences provide about the subjectivities

00:09:07 - and subjectivity for medical professionals in particular were rich, but not enough, which enough. And, and I turned to psychosis and, and I combine psych psychoanalysis and, and which is a psycho theories, which, which provide us tools to make sense of, rich emotional and inner, composition, a composition of, of us as, as subjects.

Shifting Paradigms in Male Circumcision Practices

00:09:39 - And, and I develop this psychologically informed psych sociological notion of ambivalences. And, and so that would be my, my other other contribution, other other contribution to, to, to the studies on, on, on medic, on medicalization. First we had itinerary, circumcised circumcisions, we can call them village circumcisions. That was before 1960s.

00:10:10 - not, educated in, in, well, we did not receive medi medical education. They were trained by apprenticeship. Their skills were handed down from their fathers. And, and, and so, so there's this, tradition that, that went on two centuries. And, and, and then we, we see the, the introduction. We see the, we see that that health officers, starting in 1960s came to the scene

00:10:40 - over this jurisdiction, over this, over over, male circumcision. And, and then after that, doctors, doctors, in the starting 1990s, especially not doctors at, at, at private hospitals, wanted to, take this control away from, health officers and, and, and redirect male circumcision services to this hospital. So this story seems like a very linear story,

Negotiating Medical Identity in Circumcision Practices

00:11:16 - performing circumcision was also stigmatized in the eyes of medical actors. It is not exactly seen as a proper medical task. And it was associated with these itinerary circumcisions, which were each were stigmatized, as I said, by, by, for example, health offices. They did not want, when they arrived, in their, in their, assigned, places all around, all

00:11:48 - that they would be mistaken for itinerary circumcisions. They wanted to distinguish themselves from the, from these circumcisions, but also, and, but also they wanted to, they, they want to, gain approval from families themselves and families who were, who had been very much accustomed to Itin X circumcisions. So they find themselves heart of this, find themselves as ambivalent position like, okay, we wanted to

00:12:20 - but also we don't want to be mistaken for, right? Circumcised, you see, is this negotiated space, in the, at the heart of Medicalization process. and, and, and, and I'm looking at couple chapters of my book I looking, I, i, it, it looked, I look at how how they negotiated this space itself and families themselves were, they, they had a different non non-medical understanding of what care was.

Tensions in Medical Circumcision Practices

00:12:53 - not doctors van hat office introduced local anesthesia in 1960s. The, the duration of the operation, extended in the sense that it, it was taken much longer to perform circumcision because you had to perform, you had to apply local anesthesia and then wait all bit. And that really creates, create a tension anxiety on the part of not only a kid, but also families. Because in general, this is an anxiety generating practice, right?

00:13:22 - as quick as possible. They wanted, they want the circumcised to, to perform this as quickly as possible. So they were, there was some tension between, between some families and, and, and health offices and health offices. And of course, they didn't want to go back to the old techniques, right? And then, because they would be, they would be seen as itinerary circumcisions. That's what they, that's what they were worried about. But also they were, they faced this dilemma, okay, these families were not really accepting me, what I'm gonna do.

00:13:55 - I'm looking at this ambivalences that, that, medical professionals, experience, in their, in their, professions. And, and, and as I, as I give the example of, for example, you know, the, the example of health health officers, how, how they wanted to be well respected in communities, but also also wanted to d distinguish themselves from Itin circumcised.

Contemporary Circumcision Practices and Care Dynamics in Turkey

00:14:28 - this is more contemporary, periods. in, in recent case, as I mentioned, they were, they are now performing circumcision at, at, at hospitals and especially in, working class neighborhoods, low income neighborhoods. They perform circumcision at very overcrowded hospitals and, for various reasons,

00:14:57 - ization, et cetera. So, this, the, the, and this over. And, and they, so these doctors wanted to perform, good psych, good care, both, physical care and psychological care, for, for, for kids, but also the conditions do not allow them really to, to prop, to, to, to deliver what they would consider proper care. So there's this tension between what they deem see

00:15:30 - How do they deal with this? They, most of them blame, families themselves. There is another story about, you know, with ization in Turkey who families both stigmatized and, and, and, and, and, doctors invoke these stereotypes about these families. Yeah, they don't really care about their children.

Anxiety and Inequality in Municipal Health Services

00:15:57 - because these services are sponsored by municipalities. Families, look, income families don't pay anything for these, for these services. But doctors, you know, say like, yeah, they can actually afford this, but they are doing this because they're, you know, free orders, right? So, so, so I'm looking at how this anxiety anxieties about care, about status, right? In the case of health offices, for example, about their professional studies, how do they, how do they navigate this terrain,

00:16:33 - around status and, and, and, and care. And what are the, what are some of the, emotional, pressure that they, they experience? We are serious about medical care. If you wanna, if you want, if you want, public health, and, and if you want, pro if you want to provide, proper, medical care for, for the population, whatever population, whereas now in Tokyo, other, other countries, this,

00:17:03 - because all these medical actors tried to monopolize this field and, and generated new forms of inequalities easily health officers and it itiner circumcisions could collaborate because Itin circumcised in 1960s, for example, wanted to, and they learn medical techniques. They incorporated medical techniques because they, they, they also thought that this is really good for kids. And, and, and they were willing to learn these, these techniques. But the state intervention is top down state intervention.

Monopoly and Its Impact on Medical Care

00:17:51 - this kind of collaboration. So this kind of desires for monopoly, desires for professional control can be harmful, for, for providing proper, medical care, for, for the society.

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