How the Social Becomes the Biological: The Interaction Between the Genome and the Environment

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Gillian Einstein discusses the interaction between the genome and the environment and provides a discussion of the role of epigenetics in modifying the phenotype.

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Institution: University of Toronto

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Gillian Einstein discusses the interaction between the genome and the environment and provides a discussion of the role of epigenetics in modifying the phenotype.

Gillian Einstein is the Wilfred and Joyce Posluns Chair in Women’s Brain Health and Aging

Adjunct Scientist, Rotman Research Institute

Program Lead, Women, Sex, Gender, & Dementia Program—Canadian Consortium on Neurodegeneration and Aging (CCNA)

President, Canadian Organization for Gender and Sex (COGS) Research

Image courtesy of interviewee. September 23, 2024

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The speaker discusses the interconnectedness of the brain, body, and environmental influences, emphasizing that the brain should not be viewed in isolation. They highlight how external factors, particularly stress, can impact hormone secretion and gene expression, suggesting that these effects can persist across generations. The area of epigenetics is presented as critical for understanding how life experiences, such as stress and societal conditions, can affect not only individual well-being but also the flourishing of future generations.

The speaker raises concerns about societal fairness and the treatment of various groups, particularly regarding gender. They emphasize the need to reconsider societal expectations and power imbalances associated with gender roles. They discuss ongoing research related to the impacts of life-altering medical procedures on women's health, such as the effects of early ovarian removal due to cancer risk, and the lack of monitoring for healthy tissue in such cases.

Furthermore, the speaker highlights the long-term effects of gender-affirming hormone therapy in transgender individuals, particularly older trans women, and how stigma interacts with this experience. They call for more research into hormone therapies, stressing that many treatments have not been sufficiently studied, leading to potential ignorance about their effects. Overall, they advocate for increased respect for the endocrine system and a deeper understanding of hormonal influences on both physical and mental health.

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Here are five key points from the video:

1. **Connection Between Environment and Brain Function**: The video emphasizes that the brain should not be viewed in isolation from the body and the environment. Studies show that external factors, such as stressors, can significantly influence brain function, hormone secretion, and even gene expression through mechanisms like epigenetics.

2. **Epigenetics and Intergenerational Effects**: Epigenetic changes resulting from life stressors can affect not just individuals but can also be passed down to subsequent generations. This highlights the importance of understanding how environmental and social factors can impact health over time, influencing behaviors and biological processes in descendants.

3. **Gender and Societal Expectations**: The speaker discusses the impact of gendered societal expectations and stigma on individuals, particularly how these can lead to power imbalances and affect people's mental and physical health. Research into these dynamics, especially regarding women and sexual minorities, is crucial for addressing health inequalities.

4. **Need for Comprehensive Studies on Hormone Therapies**: There is a call for intensified research into the long-term effects of various hormone therapies (for both cisgender and transgender individuals) on health outcomes, including memory and overall brain health. Current studies are lacking, and there is a need for better understanding before widespread application.

5. **Respecting the Endocrine System**: The video stresses the importance of recognizing the endocrine system's powerful role in the body. It argues for more rigorous study and understanding of how hormones affect the brain and overall body function, advocating against hastily administering hormone treatments without adequate knowledge of their long-term effects.

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Here are some key quotes extracted from the video:

1. **On the Brain-Body Connection**:
- "I think for a long time people have treated the brain as if it was in a vat, just sitting on top of the shoulders, um, and secluded from the rest of the body and the rest of the world."

2. **Influence of Environment**:
- "We know...that the kind of stress that we can experience in the world also influences the expression of genes."

3. **Epigenetics and Generational Impact**:
- "Some of these blockages or silencing of genes...due to life stressors, can be carried forward. So it's not just something that happens temporarily to the person themselves."

4. **Societal Improvement**:
- "If we wanna apply this to, in general, our societies, we might think about having...societies that were more...fairer, uh, treated people more equally."

5. **Gender and Expectations**:
- "There are also rules and expectations in society that we've established. Um, and those create power imbalances."

6. **Gendered Medical Treatment Issues**:
- "You can imagine if people were just removing men's prostates or men's testes if they were healthy just because they might get sick."

7. **Long-Term Effects of Hormone Therapy**:
- "We're very aware that just going through the world as somebody...who identifies as a woman...can create stigma depending on the environment that you're in."

8. **On Research Gaps and Ignorance**:
- "What I'm interested in is ignorance. I'm interested in areas we don't know anything at all about."

9. **Need for Respecting the Endocrine System**:
- "We don't give the endocrine system enough respect...and we really need to study them before we start giving them to people willy-nilly."

10. **Understanding Mechanisms of Hormones**:
- "I think we also need to understand how they affect specific brain regions, um, and exactly what the mechanism of their effect is."

These quotes encapsulate significant themes around the connection between environment and biology, gender issues in healthcare, and the importance of understanding hormonal effects in medical treatment.

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I think for a long time people have treated the brain

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as if it was in a vat, just sitting on top of the shoulders,

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and secluded from the rest

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of the body and the rest of the world.

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And through many studies, really starting

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with an amazing, endocrinologist named Jeff Harris,

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British endocrinologist, we've learned

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that the world itself gets into the brain

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and influences, the secretion of hormones, the timing

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of the secretion of hormones.

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Now, we know through, work, from a number

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of different, epigeneticists that the kind of stress

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that we can experience in the world,

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also influences the expression of genes

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that our genome isn't constant, we can express

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or not express genes.

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And so, it's really important to think about

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these environmental worldly influences,

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and how they can,

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influence our behavior and our thoughts.

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Um, in addition to just what's going on in the brain itself,

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I do know that there are studies showing that I think it's

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to the second and third generation, that some of these,

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blockages or silencing of genes, due

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to life stressors, can, can, can be carried forward.

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So it's not just something that happens temporarily

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to the person themselves who's experiencing the stress

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or the, the, the difficult environment like famine

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or war or, fighting in a war.

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Um, but it can, it can, it can be carried on

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to their children and, and their children's children.

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Um, so I think epigenetics is actually

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an incredibly important area, of study.

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Um, even from the point of view of like,

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how do we create a better society in order to ensure that,

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people in multiple generations can flourish?

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If we wanna apply this to, in general,

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our societies, we might think about having, societies

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that were more, fairer, treated people more equally,

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didn't create stigma against certain

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types or categories.

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And this gets into what I do like to think about a lot,

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which is gender and gendered influences.

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So, a lot of times we think of gender

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as being gender identification

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or how you see yourself as male, female,

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or gender queer or anything in between.

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But, there's also, there are also rules

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and expectations in society that we've

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Established.

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Um, and those create power imbalances.

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They create stigma,

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and those also have an effect, on, on everybody.

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Um, so I like to, I I I, in my own work, I think about

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what some of these gendered expectations are.

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For example, one study that we have in the lab is

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to understand the effects of early life ovarian removal

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for women who have a high risk of cancer.

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And we're trying to understand

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how this might affect long-term,

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how this might affect their memories, their sense

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of self, and,

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and, how they feel about,

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really going forward after this surgery.

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And one of the things I think about a lot with respect

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to this is, is why hasn't anybody

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figured out a way to monitor the ovaries over time

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so healthy tissue doesn't have to be removed?

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You can imagine if people were

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just removing men's prostates

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or men's testes if they were healthy just

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because they might get sick.

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Um, and I keep thinking, you know, people,

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the cancer societies ask me,

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what do you wanna see come out of your work?

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And I, I say, I wanna see some really smart biophysicists

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figure out how to image the ovaries

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so we can follow them over time.

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And this is gendered

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because we think of the ovaries

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as only good for reproduction.

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This is in women.

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Women are, often thought of as just in terms of being,

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capable of reproduction.

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And our thinking has just biased the whole treatment

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of this population.

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So there's that. Then, there other issues

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that I think about with respect to gender identity,

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for example, and stigma.

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So there are two projects in our lab right now

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trying to understand.

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The one is trying to understand the long-term effects of,

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gender affirming hormone therapy for,

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older trans women.

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And we're not thinking of it only from the point of view

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of them taking high doses of estrogens over the long term.

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We're also thinking of it from the point of view of stigma

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and how does the stigma that they might encounter

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because of their gender identity, how does that interact

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with the hormones that they're taking?

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And how might this affect long-term, in,

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in the long-term, their memory,

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their and their brain health.

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So I do think that, it's important obviously

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to bring in the rest of the world when you're considering,

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all of EV's hormonal actions.

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Um, and stigma is a very important

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part of the rest of the world.

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You know, if you're stigmatized,

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you've got a million different things going on in your mind,

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you're constantly trying to figure out how

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to get out of the situation.

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It is stressful. Your cortisol levels go up.

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I mean, I can think of a whole physiological pathway.

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We are beginning a study in, trans women as I mentioned,

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because nobody has really looked at the long-term effects

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of gender affirming hormone therapy.

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So I mean, it's very much akin to oral contraceptives

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and also akin to,

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hormone replacement therapy in that none

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of these were studied sufficiently

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before actually being given to women, which is another,

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gendered problem as far as I can see.

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But, so we're, we want to study that,

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but we're very aware that just going through the world

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as somebody with, who,

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who identifies as a woman who was born XY

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and identified it as XY at birth,

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and those are the chromosomal sexes,

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can create stigma depending on the

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environment that you're in.

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I think there's so much we don't know.

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You know, I, in science when we write a grant proposal,

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you don't do very well if you don't in getting funding,

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if you don't identify the next logical

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gap in the literature.

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But what I'm interested in is ignorance.

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I'm interested in areas we don't know anything at all about.

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And, and I think that's an important direction to go in

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to stop saying what's the next logical step?

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And to say, where don't we know anything?

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Um, where do we not know anything in moment?

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Well, we really don't know anything about, for example,

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the long-term effects of any kind of hormone therapy,

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whether it's, for men taking,

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testosterone suppressors

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because they have prostate cancer, whether it's for women,

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taking, hormone therapy because they're older or

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because they've had their ovaries removed.

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Um, or whether it's for trans individuals, women

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or men who,

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or gender queer who are taking,

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gender affirming hormone therapy.

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We, we don't give

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the endocrine system enough respect.

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These are powerful actors in the body

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and, they can do a lot of good,

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and in some cases they can do harm

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and we really need to study them

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before we start giving them to people willy-nilly.

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I think we also need to understand how they affect

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specific brain regions,

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and exactly what the mechanism of their effect is.

"The Interconnectedness of Body, Mind, and Society: Exploring Epigenetics and Gendered Influences"**

00:00:00 - I think for a long time people have treated the brain as if it was in a vat, just sitting on top of the shoulders, and secluded from the rest of the body and the rest of the world. And through many studies, really starting with an amazing, endocrinologist named Jeff Harris, British endocrinologist, we've learned that the world itself gets into the brain and influences, the secretion of hormones, the timing of the secretion of hormones. Now, we know through, work, from a number of different, epigeneticists that the kind of stress
00:00:46 - also influences the expression of genes that our genome isn't constant, we can express or not express genes. And so, it's really important to think about these environmental worldly influences, and how they can, influence our behavior and our thoughts. in addition to just what's going on in the brain itself, I do know that there are studies showing that I think it's to the second and third generation, that some of these, blockages or silencing of genes, due
00:01:29 - So it's not just something that happens temporarily to the person themselves who's experiencing the stress or the, the, the difficult environment like famine or war or, fighting in a war. but it can, it can, it can be carried on to their children and, and their children's children. so I think epigenetics is actually an incredibly important area, of study. even from the point of view of like, how do we create a better society in order to ensure that,
00:02:11 - If we wanna apply this to, in general, our societies, we might think about having, societies that were more, fairer, treated people more equally, didn't create stigma against certain types or categories. And this gets into what I do like to think about a lot, which is gender and gendered influences. So, a lot of times we think of gender as being gender identification or how you see yourself as male, female,
00:02:51 - But, there's also, there are also rules and expectations in society that we've Established. and those create power imbalances. They create stigma, and those also have an effect, on, on everybody. so I like to, I I I, in my own work, I think about what some of these gendered expectations are. For example, one study that we have in the lab is to understand the effects of early life ovarian removal
00:03:32 - And we're trying to understand how this might affect long-term, how this might affect their memories, their sense of self, and, and, how they feel about, really going forward after this surgery. And one of the things I think about a lot with respect to this is, is why hasn't anybody figured out a way to monitor the ovaries over time so healthy tissue doesn't have to be removed? You can imagine if people were just removing men's prostates or men's testes if they were healthy just

"Reassessing Gender and Hormonal Health: The Impact of Stigma and the Need for Innovative Research"

00:04:15 - and I keep thinking, you know, people, the cancer societies ask me, what do you wanna see come out of your work? And I, I say, I wanna see some really smart biophysicists figure out how to image the ovaries so we can follow them over time. And this is gendered because we think of the ovaries as only good for reproduction. This is in women. Women are, often thought of as just in terms of being, capable of reproduction. And our thinking has just biased the whole treatment of this population. So there's that. Then, there other issues that I think about with respect to gender identity,
00:04:57 - So there are two projects in our lab right now trying to understand. The one is trying to understand the long-term effects of, gender affirming hormone therapy for, older trans women. And we're not thinking of it only from the point of view of them taking high doses of estrogens over the long term. We're also thinking of it from the point of view of stigma and how does the stigma that they might encounter because of their gender identity, how does that interact with the hormones that they're taking? And how might this affect long-term, in,
00:05:39 - their and their brain health. So I do think that, it's important obviously to bring in the rest of the world when you're considering, all of EV's hormonal actions. and stigma is a very important part of the rest of the world. You know, if you're stigmatized, you've got a million different things going on in your mind, you're constantly trying to figure out how to get out of the situation. It is stressful. Your cortisol levels go up. I mean, I can think of a whole physiological pathway. We are beginning a study in, trans women as I mentioned, because nobody has really looked at the long-term effects
00:06:20 - So I mean, it's very much akin to oral contraceptives and also akin to, hormone replacement therapy in that none of these were studied sufficiently before actually being given to women, which is another, gendered problem as far as I can see. But, so we're, we want to study that, but we're very aware that just going through the world as somebody with, who, who identifies as a woman who was born XY
00:07:03 - and those are the chromosomal sexes, can create stigma depending on the environment that you're in. I think there's so much we don't know. You know, I, in science when we write a grant proposal, you don't do very well if you don't in getting funding, if you don't identify the next logical gap in the literature. But what I'm interested in is ignorance. I'm interested in areas we don't know anything at all about. And, and I think that's an important direction to go in to stop saying what's the next logical step? And to say, where don't we know anything? where do we not know anything in moment?
00:07:44 - the long-term effects of any kind of hormone therapy, whether it's, for men taking, testosterone suppressors because they have prostate cancer, whether it's for women, taking, hormone therapy because they're older or because they've had their ovaries removed. or whether it's for trans individuals, women or men who, or gender queer who are taking, gender affirming hormone therapy. We, we don't give the endocrine system enough respect.

"Understanding the Dual Impact of Hormone Therapies: The Need for Thorough Research"

00:08:42 - and, they can do a lot of good, and in some cases they can do harm and we really need to study them before we start giving them to people willy-nilly. I think we also need to understand how they affect specific brain regions, and exactly what the mechanism of their effect is.

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