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Stories of Gender Inclusion, Power-Sharing and the Good Friday Agreement

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Siobhan Byrne discusses the ups and downs of Northern Ireland’s power-sharing institutions in the context of feminist peace activism over two and a half decades and offer a set of feminist reflections on the promise and peril of power-sharing in Northern Ireland.

Image courtesy of interviewee. March 27, 2024

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This video discusses the significance of the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, signed in 1998 to end the conflict known as "the Troubles" in Northern Ireland, which lasted for 30 years and claimed over 3,700 lives. The agreement established a power-sharing government between the nationalist community, seeking a united Ireland, and the unionist community, wanting to remain part of the United Kingdom. This video reflects on the current political challenges in Northern Ireland, noting that the assembly created from the agreement was suspended for a significant portion of its existence due to political disputes, such as those arising from Brexit.

The author highlights the importance of the Good Friday Agreement as a case study in power-sharing and conflict resolution, noting its potential lessons for similar situations globally. The involvement of the Northern Ireland Women’s Coalition, an all-women political party that contributed to the peace talks, is emphasized, illustrating how women's voices can influence political processes. This video coalition ensured commitments to human rights and equality were part of the peace agreement.

This video transitions to examine the power-sharing model's limitations, especially post-agreement, where voting along ethno-national lines diminished the influence of more inclusive political parties like the Women's Coalition. Observations are made on the successes in advocating for human rights but also the challenges arising from an increasingly polarized political environment.

The narrative further connects to broader contexts of conflict resolution, indicating that power-sharing frameworks must include diverse communities beyond ethno-national identities to achieve true equality and representation. Additionally, the author reflects on contemporary conflicts, such as in Afghanistan, and argues that lessons from Northern Ireland emphasize the necessity for mediation and inclusion in peace settlements, particularly regarding women's roles and rights in political frameworks. The conclusion calls for a re-evaluation of current conflicts, advocating for dialogue and inclusive approaches to foster lasting peace, identified as a "feminist peace."

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Last year marked the 25 year anniversary

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of the Good Friday agreement in Northern Ireland.

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Um, that was an agreement that was signed in 1998,

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and it ended 30 years of conflict, which is called,

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sometimes referred to as the troubles.

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Um, the conflict was largely between,

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nationalist community that was fighting oppressive British

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rule and desired a United Ireland

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and a unionist community that wished to maintain ties with,

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preserve the connection to the United Kingdom,

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political connection to the United Kingdom.

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So this agreement was quite extraordinary.

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Um, in that time, in the 30 years, you know,

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over 3,700 people had been killed.

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So it was, quite an exciting time

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that an agreement was signed,

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and one in which would install a new, political reality,

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where both nationalists

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and unionists would share power in a post agreement,

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a pol political institution.

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So, an anniversaries like these, of course,

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are opportunities to reflect on the legacies of war

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and conflict and peace.

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And it was a bit of a strange anniversary last year

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because the Northern Ireland assembly, the government

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that had been created as a result

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of the Good Friday agreement was suspended.

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So, in the context of

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that suspension has us thinking about, you know,

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what are the legacies of the Belfast agreement?

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What are the lessons that we might learn for other instances

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of conflict resolution and so forth.

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So the, the, the Assembly now is no longer,

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suspended only just so, the parties have agreed

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to share power again, the last suspension was, a boycott

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by the Democratic Unionist party over, the post Brexit,

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economic and trade borders, where they would go

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'cause borders, like those are,

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also political borders as well.

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So they have agreed to return, to, to share power.

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Though, you know, this,

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political assembly has been suspended for something like 40%

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of the time since it was created in 1998.

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So it hasn't been, there, there has been a, a,

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it has been a period of, of peace

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and a set of political processes that are in place in order

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to deal with, deep divisions

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between the different parties.

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But it has also been one

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that has been quite bumpy along the way.

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Um, so I'm, you know, I'm interested in thinking about

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how we understand the legacy of the Good Friday agreement

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and what we might apply for other kinds of cases.

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So in the power sharing literature,

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Northern Ireland stands out as an archetypal case of,

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effective, conflict resolution,

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for power sharing scholars.

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Um, it performed what

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Brendan O'Leary calls a kind of necessary triage.

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It ended the conflict

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and created opportunities to have, to, to make,

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a new political reality possible.

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And in the feminist peace literature,

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the Good Friday agreement is lauded as well,

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because it had this unique all women's political party

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that participated in the peace talks that led

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to the Good Friday agreement, the signing

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of the Peace Agreement in 1998.

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And for feminist Peace scholars,

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they're interested in thinking about the contribution that

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that party made, to the conflict

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and how it might be possible to replicate,

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that contribution

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or some of the, what we learn from the difference

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that having that, that party at the peace toxin in,

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the first post, conflict government.

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What, what, what difference that might make and,

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and what might be, you know, lessons for other, other kinds

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of cases as well.

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Um, may I'll say a little bit about the

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origins of the project.

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Both myself and friend

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and colleague Alison McCullough have been thinking about the

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relationship between power sharing and the gender

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and peace literature

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and feminist security studies literature.

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It was in 2015,

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which was another anniversary actually, of the passage

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of United Nations Security Council,

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resolution 1325 on Women Peace and Security.

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It was a 15 year anniversary then,

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and the two of us were at the International Studies

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Association annual meeting.

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Um, and we were, I, you know, I was attending some

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of the power sharing panels with, with Allison,

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and they were all held in the,

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grand ballrooms in the basement of, of the, the lovely hotel

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that the ISA was held at.

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And Allison came with me to the women peace

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and Security panels, which were largely held in the,

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bedrooms on the top floors of, of the hotel.

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So the two of us were riding up

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and down the elevator attending each other's panels.

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And it struck us that, you know, we were,

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these were two very different kinds of scholars, groups

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of scholars working on

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what were actually very similar kinds of cases.

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So Northern Ireland stood out for, those

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who were working on the women peace

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and security agenda to think about, well,

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look at the difference that,

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the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition, that political party

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that participated in the talks in Northern Ireland, made to,

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the peace agreement.

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How can we take some of that,

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and integrate it into this new UN resolution on

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women peace and security?

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Um, and so they were thinking about Northern Ireland,

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but so too, where the power sharing scholars about the

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lessons about what has worked with power sharing, what kinds

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of institutions are necessary in order to ensure that,

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you don't have a kind of majoritarian, government

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that, that leaves out,

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very large minority communities and is quite unstable

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and can be quite violent as well.

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So the two of us began in that moment

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as we were traveling up

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and down the elevator to think about the relationship

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between women peace and security and power sharing.

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And that is really the origin of our project.

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Uh, right now, we were just finishing up a book on,

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developing a feminist theory of power sharing for University

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of Toronto Press, which looks at some

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of those archetypal cases of power sharing,

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like Northern Ireland, like in Bosnia, and,

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and thinks through what,

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what we might learn from those cases, in order

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to develop a feminist theory of power sharing that might be,

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a way of thinking about new types

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of political institutions

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and new kinds of transformations for the sorts of conflicts

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that we're seeing today, like in Ukraine, like, in,

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in Gaza and so forth.

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The Good Friday agreement was signed in 1998,

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and, it had this really unique electoral formula,

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in order to ensure

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that even very small political parties would be,

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represented in the peace talks

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that would lead to a final agreement.

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So in 1996, they had the elections to the Peace talks,

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which were quite, it was quite interesting.

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Um, and a group of feminist activists, trade unionists,

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civil society organizers, people with a background in,

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civil rights organizing, saw this as an opportunity.

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They thought there are elections.

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Why don't we form a party

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and see if we can get elected to the talks as well?

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Now, the idea of having elections to the talks was to ensure

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that even very small,

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sectarian parties would be represented there,

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because the idea of the talks was to ensure broad inclusion

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that, you needed to everybody to talk

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to each other if you were going to secure a piece.

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So these feminists, thought this is our opportunity,

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perhaps to form a party as well

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and get elected to the talks.

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And they were led by, it was a,

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a cross community group, co-founded

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by Monica McWilliams,

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and, co-led with Pearl Seger as well.

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So Monica represented the nationalist community,

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and Pearl represented largely the unionist community.

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And, they took this opportunity in like six weeks

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leading up to the talks to form a party to begin canvassing.

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And incredibly, quite improbably.

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They got elected to, to the 1996 talks.

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Now, they didn't just sort of spring out of nowhere.

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As I said, you know, members

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of the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition Party,

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had a background.

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Some members had a background in trade union activism had a

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background in, the Civil Rights movement

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and feminist organizing and so forth.

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And, indeed,

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Monica McWilliams has written recently an autobiography

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called, titled as Stand Up Speak Out,

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where she describes the experience of, of,

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feminist organizing in Northern Ireland.

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And it was, she, she recalls it organizing a conference

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before, the, election to the Peace Talks

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where she brought together, you know,

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over 200 women from across Northern Ireland,

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and they were reflecting on, on the un

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Beijing Platform for action, which,

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was signed in 1995

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and set an agenda for gender mainstreaming

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and, you know, in conflict resolution,

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but in, in all aspects of, of politics as well.

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And the idea, I think, as I understand it, was to sort

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of bring Beijing home

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and to think about the lessons

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from Beijing for Northern Ireland.

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So the Beijing platform for action is 1995.

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Elections to the Peace Talks are 1996.

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So you've got this kind of base of, feminists

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that are already working on political questions.

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So they get elected to the peace talks

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and, they were there with a mandate,

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which was one, to not settle the constitutional question

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among them, but one that was going to bring a commitment

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to human rights, equality,

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and inclusion in those peace talks.

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And they were, successful in ensuring

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that there would be world class commitments to human rights.

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The Human Rights Commission guaranteed in the Good Friday

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agreement and a Quality commission as well, calls

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for a bill of rights.

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There was a civic forum that, they were able

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to put on the agenda.

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So that kind of experience, it was quite interesting.

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It, it is one that, we can't say

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that it is really the theory of power sharing

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and the practice of power sharing that helped ensure

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that women got, a voice

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and the Northern Ireland

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Women's Coalition got elected there.

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It was quite accidental, that, that they managed

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to find themselves at that table.

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But what it is instructive for is how those ideas

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around inclusion and equality

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and human rights are the kinds of ideas,

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the normative commitments that are part of

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what power sharing as mode of democratic governance,

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also, promotes.

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So we can kind of see a relationship both to,

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power sharing modes of government, as well

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as this commitment to broader base inclusion.

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Power sharing, in essence, is an idea where it's,

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a way in which, you can form government

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where the largest communities are represented

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in that government.

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It is not a authoritarian government,

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which can be quite oppressive

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and can be indeed quite dangerous for minority communities.

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So power sharing is the logic that you need all,

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you need the major communities that are represented in,

247
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in political, government and political life, indeed.

248
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Um, but the power sharing literature tends

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to understand community

250
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and inclusion in terms of ethno national identity.

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So it tends to focus on, when it thinks about broad base,

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the broad representation of communities, it tends

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to focus on those ethnicized communities.

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Um, and indeed it might by creating conditions

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where those communities are then

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represented in political government.

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Um, it's, it entrenches, that kind of,

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way in which politics operate.

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So in, in the post agreement period, then,

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the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition begins to fade away

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as communities begin to vote,

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then along ethno national lines,

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because those are the parties that are, more likely to,

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have political power in order to, you know, transform,

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unequal conditions in communities and so forth.

266
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Uh, and, and what it has meant then that is that, there,

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there have been these, you know,

268
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important equality measures in the post agreement period,

269
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but there have also been a lot of tr there's also been a lot

270
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of trouble and limits on the kinds of imaginings

271
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or the kinds of change

272
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that the feminist activists had hoped to see.

273
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And indeed, some of the most progressive changes

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that have happened in Northern Ireland in the post agreement

275
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period have been one that have happened

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during those periods of suspension.

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That 40% of the time, just as an example,

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the, decriminalization of abortion

279
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and marriage equality were both,

280
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made possible when the Northern Ireland Power sharing

281
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assembly was suspended,

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and there was direct rule from Westminster,

283
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and that's when legislation was passed in order

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to ensure those kinds of equality measures.

285
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So, I think that means then that there are,

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there are important lessons about the experiences

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of the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition Party, as well

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as the kinds of activism

289
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to build a more inclusive post-conflict period.

290
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But those are lessons that are about, you know,

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finding the institutional space to get included.

292
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It means for the power sharing literature

293
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to theorize inclusion all the way down,

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to not focus just on those ethno national communities

295
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because of the incredible material difference

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that other kinds

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of communities make in thinking about inclusion

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and in, in indeed ushering in these really important,

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equality in human rights,

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components of the peace process.

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And in the post-conflict transition space, I'm thinking

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myself now about, the, the legacies of,

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the Good Friday agreement,

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but also what it means in terms of the women peace

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and security agenda, how it gets taken up as, you know,

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an important moment in feminist peace politics.

307
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And all of that is true.

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Um, and you know,

309
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the Good Friday agreement predates the women peace

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and security agenda, which was passed in, made real in,

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2000, when the UN passed,

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security Council Resolution 1325.

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Uh, so, you know, two years

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before, that, WPS was passed by the un,

315
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that's when the Belfast agreement was adopted.

316
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So, in some ways, the experience of Northern Ireland

317
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graphs on to the kinds of expectations about what WPS would,

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offer for other kinds of cases,

319
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but in other case, is an important one

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to think about both the limits of power sharing in WPS,

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but maybe also what might be instructive for other cases.

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And that's Afghanistan.

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So in, 2021, it's the drawdown

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of the US mission in Afghanistan.

325
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And power sharing indeed was on the table

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for Afghanistan as well.

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It looked quite different at different moments.

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Sometimes it was about how to share power among, rival,

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anti Taliban factions than it was about how

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to share power with the Taliban as well,

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and Afghanistan, which,

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the initial US led invasion is happens one year

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after the passage of the women peace and security agenda.

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So in Afghanistan, they had a national action plan on how

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to realize women peace and security.

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Indeed bringing security to women

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and girls was part of, the justification

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for the invasion and the protracted occupation

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of Afghanistan as well.

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So at the drawdown of the mission, when the Ministry

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of Women gets renamed something like the Ministry of Vice

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and Virtue by the Taliban,

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and all of those women who had been active in

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that women peace

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and security space are now incredibly vulnerable under,

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the return of the Taliban regime.

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In some ways, all of these 20 years have rendered women more

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insecure in Afghanistan than before.

349
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I think that suggests to us also that the integration of

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what was promised with power sharing

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and what WPS meant was very poorly done.

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And I think it had, especially, you know,

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had to do a lot with, you know, for the US how

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to extricate itself from Afghanistan instead of how really

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to, facilitate, power sharing

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and gender equality on the agenda.

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And I think that is an important lesson when we're thinking

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about the new kinds of conflicts.

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I mean, they have to end in a mediated settlement

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because the experience in Afghanistan is just horrific.

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Uh, when we look at

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Ukraine, surely we can't mean that it has

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to be a military solution for Gaza as well.

364
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There is no military solution.

365
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And the, the horrors

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that we are witnessing in Gaza today are,

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call on all of us to think about how mediation

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and dialogue through inclusion is the only way

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that we're going to achieve a real piece.

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And in my view, that that kind of piece is a feminist piece.

Reflections on the Good Friday Agreement's Legacy

00:00:00 - Last year marked the 25 year anniversary of the Good Friday agreement in Northern Ireland. that was an agreement that was signed in 1998, and it ended 30 years of conflict, which is called, sometimes referred to as the troubles. the conflict was largely between, nationalist community that was fighting oppressive British rule and desired a United Ireland and a unionist community that wished to maintain ties with, preserve the connection to the United Kingdom,
00:00:36 - So this agreement was quite extraordinary. in that time, in the 30 years, you know, over 3,700 people had been killed. So it was, quite an exciting time that an agreement was signed, and one in which would install a new, political reality, where both nationalists and unionists would share power in a post agreement, a pol political institution.
00:01:07 - are opportunities to reflect on the legacies of war and conflict and peace. And it was a bit of a strange anniversary last year because the Northern Ireland assembly, the government that had been created as a result of the Good Friday agreement was suspended. So, in the context of that suspension has us thinking about, you know, what are the legacies of the Belfast agreement? What are the lessons that we might learn for other instances
00:01:39 - So the, the, the Assembly now is no longer, suspended only just so, the parties have agreed to share power again, the last suspension was, a boycott by the Democratic Unionist party over, the post Brexit, economic and trade borders, where they would go 'cause borders, like those are, also political borders as well. So they have agreed to return, to, to share power.
00:02:09 - political assembly has been suspended for something like 40% of the time since it was created in 1998. So it hasn't been, there, there has been a, a, it has been a period of, of peace and a set of political processes that are in place in order to deal with, deep divisions between the different parties. But it has also been one that has been quite bumpy along the way. so I'm, you know, I'm interested in thinking about
00:02:42 - and what we might apply for other kinds of cases. So in the power sharing literature, Northern Ireland stands out as an archetypal case of, effective, conflict resolution, for power sharing scholars. it performed what Brendan O'Leary calls a kind of necessary triage. It ended the conflict and created opportunities to have, to, to make, a new political reality possible.

Women’s Role in the Good Friday Agreement

00:03:12 - the Good Friday agreement is lauded as well, because it had this unique all women's political party that participated in the peace talks that led to the Good Friday agreement, the signing of the Peace Agreement in 1998. And for feminist Peace scholars, they're interested in thinking about the contribution that that party made, to the conflict and how it might be possible to replicate, that contribution or some of the, what we learn from the difference
00:03:45 - the first post, conflict government. What, what, what difference that might make and, and what might be, you know, lessons for other, other kinds of cases as well. may I'll say a little bit about the origins of the project. Both myself and friend and colleague Alison McCullough have been thinking about the relationship between power sharing and the gender and peace literature and feminist security studies literature.
00:04:15 - which was another anniversary actually, of the passage of United Nations Security Council, resolution 1325 on Women Peace and Security. It was a 15 year anniversary then, and the two of us were at the International Studies Association annual meeting. and we were, I, you know, I was attending some of the power sharing panels with, with Allison, and they were all held in the,
00:04:45 - that the ISA was held at. And Allison came with me to the women peace and Security panels, which were largely held in the, bedrooms on the top floors of, of the hotel. So the two of us were riding up and down the elevator attending each other's panels. And it struck us that, you know, we were, these were two very different kinds of scholars, groups of scholars working on what were actually very similar kinds of cases.
00:05:15 - who were working on the women peace and security agenda to think about, well, look at the difference that, the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition, that political party that participated in the talks in Northern Ireland, made to, the peace agreement. How can we take some of that, and integrate it into this new UN resolution on women peace and security? and so they were thinking about Northern Ireland, but so too, where the power sharing scholars about the lessons about what has worked with power sharing, what kinds
00:05:49 - you don't have a kind of majoritarian, government that, that leaves out, very large minority communities and is quite unstable and can be quite violent as well. So the two of us began in that moment as we were traveling up and down the elevator to think about the relationship between women peace and security and power sharing. And that is really the origin of our project. right now, we were just finishing up a book on,

Feminist Power Sharing in Conflict Resolution

00:06:21 - of Toronto Press, which looks at some of those archetypal cases of power sharing, like Northern Ireland, like in Bosnia, and, and thinks through what, what we might learn from those cases, in order to develop a feminist theory of power sharing that might be, a way of thinking about new types of political institutions and new kinds of transformations for the sorts of conflicts
00:06:55 - in Gaza and so forth. The Good Friday agreement was signed in 1998, and, it had this really unique electoral formula, in order to ensure that even very small political parties would be, represented in the peace talks that would lead to a final agreement. So in 1996, they had the elections to the Peace talks, which were quite, it was quite interesting.
00:07:27 - civil society organizers, people with a background in, civil rights organizing, saw this as an opportunity. They thought there are elections. Why don't we form a party and see if we can get elected to the talks as well? Now, the idea of having elections to the talks was to ensure that even very small, sectarian parties would be represented there, because the idea of the talks was to ensure broad inclusion
00:07:58 - to each other if you were going to secure a piece. So these feminists, thought this is our opportunity, perhaps to form a party as well and get elected to the talks. And they were led by, it was a, a cross community group, co-founded by Monica McWilliams, and, co-led with Pearl Seger as well. So Monica represented the nationalist community, and Pearl represented largely the unionist community.
00:08:32 - leading up to the talks to form a party to begin canvassing. And incredibly, quite improbably. They got elected to, to the 1996 talks. Now, they didn't just sort of spring out of nowhere. As I said, you know, members of the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition Party, had a background. Some members had a background in trade union activism had a background in, the Civil Rights movement and feminist organizing and so forth.
00:09:01 - Monica McWilliams has written recently an autobiography called, titled as Stand Up Speak Out, where she describes the experience of, of, feminist organizing in Northern Ireland. And it was, she, she recalls it organizing a conference before, the, election to the Peace Talks where she brought together, you know, over 200 women from across Northern Ireland, and they were reflecting on, on the un

Gender Mainstreaming and Power Sharing Lessons

00:09:35 - was signed in 1995 and set an agenda for gender mainstreaming and, you know, in conflict resolution, but in, in all aspects of, of politics as well. And the idea, I think, as I understand it, was to sort of bring Beijing home and to think about the lessons from Beijing for Northern Ireland. So the Beijing platform for action is 1995. Elections to the Peace Talks are 1996. So you've got this kind of base of, feminists
00:10:05 - So they get elected to the peace talks and, they were there with a mandate, which was one, to not settle the constitutional question among them, but one that was going to bring a commitment to human rights, equality, and inclusion in those peace talks. And they were, successful in ensuring that there would be world class commitments to human rights. The Human Rights Commission guaranteed in the Good Friday
00:10:38 - for a bill of rights. There was a civic forum that, they were able to put on the agenda. So that kind of experience, it was quite interesting. It, it is one that, we can't say that it is really the theory of power sharing and the practice of power sharing that helped ensure that women got, a voice and the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition got elected there. It was quite accidental, that, that they managed
00:11:08 - But what it is instructive for is how those ideas around inclusion and equality and human rights are the kinds of ideas, the normative commitments that are part of what power sharing as mode of democratic governance, also, promotes. So we can kind of see a relationship both to, power sharing modes of government, as well as this commitment to broader base inclusion. Power sharing, in essence, is an idea where it's,
00:11:43 - where the largest communities are represented in that government. It is not a authoritarian government, which can be quite oppressive and can be indeed quite dangerous for minority communities. So power sharing is the logic that you need all, you need the major communities that are represented in, in political, government and political life, indeed. but the power sharing literature tends to understand community and inclusion in terms of ethno national identity.
00:12:16 - the broad representation of communities, it tends to focus on those ethnicized communities. and indeed it might by creating conditions where those communities are then represented in political government. it's, it entrenches, that kind of, way in which politics operate. So in, in the post agreement period, then, the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition begins to fade away

Lessons from Northern Ireland's Power Sharing Experience

00:12:45 - then along ethno national lines, because those are the parties that are, more likely to, have political power in order to, you know, transform, unequal conditions in communities and so forth. and, and what it has meant then that is that, there, there have been these, you know, important equality measures in the post agreement period, but there have also been a lot of tr there's also been a lot of trouble and limits on the kinds of imaginings or the kinds of change
00:13:17 - And indeed, some of the most progressive changes that have happened in Northern Ireland in the post agreement period have been one that have happened during those periods of suspension. That 40% of the time, just as an example, the, decriminalization of abortion and marriage equality were both, made possible when the Northern Ireland Power sharing assembly was suspended, and there was direct rule from Westminster,
00:13:48 - to ensure those kinds of equality measures. So, I think that means then that there are, there are important lessons about the experiences of the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition Party, as well as the kinds of activism to build a more inclusive post-conflict period. But those are lessons that are about, you know, finding the institutional space to get included. It means for the power sharing literature to theorize inclusion all the way down,
00:14:20 - because of the incredible material difference that other kinds of communities make in thinking about inclusion and in, in indeed ushering in these really important, equality in human rights, components of the peace process. And in the post-conflict transition space, I'm thinking myself now about, the, the legacies of, the Good Friday agreement, but also what it means in terms of the women peace
00:14:53 - an important moment in feminist peace politics. And all of that is true. and you know, the Good Friday agreement predates the women peace and security agenda, which was passed in, made real in, 2000, when the UN passed, security Council Resolution 1325. so, you know, two years before, that, WPS was passed by the un,
00:15:22 - So, in some ways, the experience of Northern Ireland graphs on to the kinds of expectations about what WPS would, offer for other kinds of cases, but in other case, is an important one to think about both the limits of power sharing in WPS, but maybe also what might be instructive for other cases. And that's Afghanistan. So in, 2021, it's the drawdown of the US mission in Afghanistan.

Lessons from Afghanistan on Power and Peace

00:15:53 - for Afghanistan as well. It looked quite different at different moments. Sometimes it was about how to share power among, rival, anti Taliban factions than it was about how to share power with the Taliban as well, and Afghanistan, which, the initial US led invasion is happens one year after the passage of the women peace and security agenda. So in Afghanistan, they had a national action plan on how to realize women peace and security.
00:16:26 - and girls was part of, the justification for the invasion and the protracted occupation of Afghanistan as well. So at the drawdown of the mission, when the Ministry of Women gets renamed something like the Ministry of Vice and Virtue by the Taliban, and all of those women who had been active in that women peace and security space are now incredibly vulnerable under,
00:16:55 - In some ways, all of these 20 years have rendered women more insecure in Afghanistan than before. I think that suggests to us also that the integration of what was promised with power sharing and what WPS meant was very poorly done. And I think it had, especially, you know, had to do a lot with, you know, for the US how to extricate itself from Afghanistan instead of how really
00:17:30 - and gender equality on the agenda. And I think that is an important lesson when we're thinking about the new kinds of conflicts. I mean, they have to end in a mediated settlement because the experience in Afghanistan is just horrific. when we look at Ukraine, surely we can't mean that it has to be a military solution for Gaza as well. There is no military solution. And the, the horrors
00:18:12 - call on all of us to think about how mediation and dialogue through inclusion is the only way that we're going to achieve a real piece. And in my view, that that kind of piece is a feminist piece.

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