Japan in Focus

Key Question Being Explored in This Insight:

How is Japan navigating its economic future while balancing demographic shifts, rising inflation, and global trade challenges? What key policy shifts and structural changes will define the trajectory of Japan's economy?

View the page of: Charles Yuji Horioka

View the page of: Shujiro Urata

Institution: Kobe University

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This video discusses Japan's economic challenges, including an aging population, changing consumption patterns, rising inflation, and global trade dynamics. It features insights from experts on how demographic shifts affect savings, consumption patterns, and economic growth. It also explores the impact of monetary policy decisions on household behavior and inflation. Furthermore, it addresses Japan's role in global trade agreements and the need to adapt foreign trade policies to ensure competitiveness amid ongoing global shifts. This video highlights the importance of innovation, research and development, human resource development, and international collaboration to support economic growth. Additionally, recommendations are made for targeted fiscal policies, such as incentivizing research and development, enabling longer work by elderly and female workers, and attracting skilled foreign researchers and investments in high-tech industries like semiconductors.

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Based on the video , here are 5 key points:

1. **Demographic Shifts and Economic Implications**: Japan's aging population and low birth rates are impacting the balance between savings and consumption. As the population ages, there will be fewer young people working and saving, leading to potential shortages in workers and savings in the economy. This could negatively impact economic growth and result in shifts in consumption patterns.

2. **Monetary Policy and Household Behavior**: The Bank of Japan raising interest rates can help control inflation but may also slow economic growth as businesses and households become less willing to borrow for investments and purchases. The key to maintaining people's standard of living is ensuring that wage increases keep up with inflation.

3. **Trade Agreements and Global Economic Influence**: Japan's participation in trade agreements such as the CPTPP is crucial for bolstering its global economic influence. These agreements help facilitate trade and create stable environments amidst rising geopolitical tensions, contributing to Japan's economic expansion.

4. **Adapting Foreign Trade Policies**: Japan needs to focus on high-demand industries like semiconductors and ensure a stable supply chain of critical minerals. By diversifying import sources and leveraging trade agreements, Japan can maintain competitiveness in global markets.

5. **Fiscal and Monetary Policy Recommendations**: Given Japan's economic challenges and high government debt, targeted programs that provide significant benefits without high costs are recommended. Prioritizing research and development, enabling longer work periods for elderly and female employees, and enhancing innovation capability through international collaboration are crucial for sustaining economic growth.

Overall, addressing demographic shifts, monitoring monetary policy impacts, strengthening trade agreements, adapting foreign trade policies, and pursuing strategic fiscal and monetary policies are key considerations for Japan's economic management and international growth potential.

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Here are some key quotes from the video you :

1. "These demographic shifts affect household savings and consumption patterns, and what long-term implications does this have." - Professor Hoka discussing the impact of Japan's aging population on savings and consumption.
2. "All countries have to deal with a trade-off between inflation and the state of the economy." - Professor Hoka on the impact of raising interest rates on household behavior.
3. "Exports play a crucial role in Japanese economy as a country with limited natural resources." - Professor Ruta highlighting Japan's reliance on exports.
4. "To support the production of these products, Japan must secure a stable supply of critical minerals, such as semiconductor for high-tech manufacturing." - Discussing the need for Japan to adapt its trade policies to maintain competitiveness.
5. "The Japanese government's hands are basically tied because Japan has a huge government debt to GDP ratio." - Professor Hoka acknowledging the challenges Japan faces in implementing fiscal policies.
6. "With the shrinking population, Japan's domestic market expected to contract, making exports increasingly vital for economic growth." - Highlighting the importance of Japan's international growth potential amidst domestic economic challenges.

X-TIMESTAMP-MAP=LOCAL:00:00:00.000,MPEGTS:90000

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This week, we dive into the internal dynamics

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of Japan's economy, exploring

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how it is managing an aging population,

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shifting consumer patterns and rising inflation.

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We'll also look at Japan's role in global trade

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and how it is adapting

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to a rapidly changing international landscape.

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Joining me today are two prominent voices in this field.

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Duta, professor of Economics at Waseda University,

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an expert on Japan's economic policy

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and its place in global trade.

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Charles Hoka, professor at Colwell University, known

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for his research on Japan's macroeconomic trends,

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including household savings, consumption, and fiscal policy.

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Great to have you both here.

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Let's begin with you, professor Hoka.

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Japan's aging population

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and low birth rates are putting pressure on its economy,

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shifting the balance between savings and consumption.

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We're also seeing rising inflation,

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which is affecting real household

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income and spending patterns.

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Professor Hoka,

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how do these demographic shifts affect household savings

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and consumption patterns,

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and what long-term implications does this have

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for Japan's economic growth?

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Well, I believe that the, dramatic,

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demographic shifts that you were describing will have,

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profound effects on, the, consumption

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and behavior of, Japanese households.

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I want to, in order to make my point clearer, I want

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to use a model

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that economists very often use the lifecycle model.

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It's, it's just basically common sense,

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but according to the lifecycle model, when people are,

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young, they work earn income

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and save part of their income in order

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to prepare for their retirement.

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And when people, become older, they retire,

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and, finance their living expenses

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by drawing down their previously accumulated savings.

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Uh, in other words, they diss save.

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So the more, so young people, they, work

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and save old, older people, they retire and they diss save.

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So, as the population ages, we'll have more older people

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who are, retired

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and disserving and fewer people who are,

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fewer young people who are, working and saving.

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Therefore, there's a danger that, there will be,

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a shortage, of, workers

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and also a shortage of saving in the economy as a whole.

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And this will, of course, you know, have, a very,

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negative impact on, economic growth, in the,

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in the economy.

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And, another, change that will occur is

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that there will be, big shifts in consumption patterns

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because you have more older people and fewer young people.

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So obviously the, consumption categories

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that the older people, are, overrepresented in such

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as, leisure related activities, health,

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related expenditures,

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long-term care related expenditures, these types

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of expenditures will increase their share

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as the population ages

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and the, categories that are, favored

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by younger, people.

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Uh, such as, you know,

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education related expenditures,

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work related expenditures, will, will decline.

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So, it's not clear whether the consumption will increase

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or decrease, but there will be profound shifts in the

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composition of, consumption.

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So these are some of the very profound changes

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that will occur, in saving in consumption patterns

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as the population ages. Turning

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To monetary policy, the Bank

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of Japan recently raised interest rates

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and it's considering further heights.

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How will these moves impact household behavior, particularly

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regarding savings and consumption?

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Will this lead to more cautious spending

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or help stabilize inflation?

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All countries have to deal with a, trade-off between,

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inflation and, the state of the economy.

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Uh, if the, country's central bank,

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in this case the Bank of Japan is its interest rates,

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this will certainly help bring inflation under control.

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Uh, but at the same time, it will lower, economic growth

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because if interest rates rise,

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businesses will be, less willing to borrow to finance,

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you know, investment in, new factories

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or equipment and so on.

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And consumers, households will be, less willing

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to borrow in order to, purchase housing, automobiles,

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furniture, electrical appliances, and so on.

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I think that what, matters, more than, inflation

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is, the relationship between the rate of increase

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of prices and the rate of increases, rate

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of increase of wages.

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Yeah. Even if inflation is, you know,

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say 10%, if, if if inflation,

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prices is, 10%, if the inflation of,

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wages is also 10%, people will still be able

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to maintain the same standard of living.

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So we don't really have to, worry.

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So, what I think is the biggest problem is in Japan is

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not inflation,

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but the, fact

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that wa the increase in wages has been lagging behind the,

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increase in prices, meaning that people's standard

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of living, has been, declining.

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I would be, a little bit hesitant about, you know,

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continually increasing interest rates because

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although that will, bring down inflation,

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it will also have negative impact on the economy.

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What I would favor would be

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to be more cautious about raising interest rates,

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but giving more attention to, increasing wages

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and getting people, getting companies

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to pay higher wages, to their workers.

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Japan has historically been an export driven economy,

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but global trade dynamics are shifting.

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Japan has been a key player in the trade agreements such

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as C-P-T-P-P,

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but rising trade tensions are testing its strategies.

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Professor Ruta,

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how the trade agreements like c PT PP shape Japan's global

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economic influence, and what role will they play

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as Japan navigates rising geopolitical tensions?

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Well, let, lemme first answer your second question,

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and then I turn to the first question.

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The second question you asked concern the role

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of trade agreements like c PT PP in helping Japan navigate

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rising geopolitical tensions.

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Uh, as you noted earlier, exports

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play a crucial role in Japanese economy as a country

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with limited natural resources.

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Japan relies heavily on, imports

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for essential goods, such as food and energy.

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To pay for these imports,

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Japan must earn foreign exchange through exports

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for Japan to, successfully expand its exports.

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An open rules based trading environment is essential.

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The World Trade Organization, WTO, is expected to provide

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such a framework,

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but the, WTO has struggled to fulfill this role

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due to divergent views among its members on the ideal

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trade system, particularly,

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different views between developed and developing companies.

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And moreover, the global trading environment has become

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increasingly complex

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and unstable due to rising geopolitical tensions.

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Uh, given these challenges, Japan has sort

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to such an open rules, rules based system with

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like-minded countries by forming pre trade agreements,

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FDAs, such as the C-P-T-P-P, comprehensive

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and progressive agreement for nonspecific partnership.

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FDAs would help facilitate played

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by eliminating import types

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among member countries in creating more predictable

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and stable trade environment.

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Japan has enough 19 FD so far,

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including c, PT P,

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and the, another big one is called

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regional comprehensive Economic Partnership Asset.

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Uh,

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and approximately, about 80%, 80%

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of Japan's total trade is conducted with

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FDA partner countries.

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So, now, let me quickly,

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others are your first question.

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How do trade agreements like the C-P-T-P-P shape the past

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global, economic influence?

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As I mentioned earlier, the WTO is not

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effectively providing an open rules based trading system.

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In response, Japan is working hard to,

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build a such system by establishing

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and expanding pre-trade agreements.

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FTOs, and let me add another key point, that is,

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even if WTOs dysfunction for a result,

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it would still struggle to provide us

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through fully effective global trading system.

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One major issue is its, limited scope.

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It does not adequately cover critical areas such

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as climate change or environmental regulations

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and the digital economy.

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These areas are increasingly important

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in today's global economy.

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In contrast, many of Japan's f fda, others these,

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emerging issues.

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Furthermore, Japan is actively working

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to establish trade agreements focused on specific areas such

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as digital trade to further enhance the, regional

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and global trading system.

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Through these efforts, Japan's expanding

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its economic influence on contributing to the development

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of more, stable

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and forward looking international trade, framework.

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Exports and sectors like automobiles have face challenges,

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and Japan is increasingly focused on the high demand

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industries like semiconductors.

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How should Japan adapt its foreign trade policies

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to maintain competitiveness, especially

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with ongoing global shifts?

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To support the production of these products,

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Japan must secure a stable supply of critical minerals, such

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as where, elements which are essential for

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semiconductor on high tech manufacturing.

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To ensure a reliable supply chains, the plan should reduce

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its dependence on, on a few countries

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and diversify its import sources.

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In terms of trade policy, the fund should leverage

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existing trade agreement such as CPP,

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repeat myself, I negotiate new agreements

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to secure stable, imports of their essential materials.

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These essential materials regarding new trade agreements,

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priorities should be given to countries in,

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in Latin America, which include Brazil, Argentina,

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Uruguay, and Paraguay, because they can supply both food

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and political minerals.

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African countries, are also strong candidates

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for investment agreements, given their potential

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to supply critical minerals.

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These agreements would facilitate Japan, Japanese firms

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investment in projects focused on good production

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and the extraction of critical minerals,

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which could then be exported to Japan.

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Additionally, trade agreements

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play crucial role in expanding export

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market for Japanese product. As I said earlier

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In this final segment, we bring together Japan's domestic

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economic challenges and its position in the global market.

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Professor Hoka, given the multiple challenges Japan faces,

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what fiscal and monetary policies do you think the Japanese

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government should pursue?

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Well, you ask a very, difficult question.

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Uh, not only is Japan, simultaneously facing many,

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challenges domestic as well as international.

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Uh, the Japanese, government's hands are basically tied

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because Japan has a huge government debt to GDP ratio.

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Um, it's, already more than 200% the highest

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among the developed countries.

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And, this, government debt to GDP ratio is projected

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to rise even more in the future as the population ages

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and the government, has to increase spending on,

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programs for the elderly, such as, pensions,

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healthcare, long-term care, and so on.

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So, as a result,

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the Japanese government cannot afford to,

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engage in massive amounts of fiscal spending to,

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stimulate the economy, to help households

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to increase the competitiveness of Japanese products abroad.

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So what I would recommend instead is

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that the Japanese government engage in targeted programs

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that don't cost as much, but have a big bang for the buck.

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Um, for example, helping only the, people

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who really are in need

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or, perhaps, subsidizing, research

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and development, not only by businesses,

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but also by, universities

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and research institutes, to,

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increase the competitiveness of Japanese products abroad.

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And, another policy that I would recommend is,

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for the government to take steps to, enable workers

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to continue working for longer periods of time until,

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preferably until their seventies.

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Uh, because as I mentioned earlier, population aging,

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could potentially lead to severe labor shortages.

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But actually, if you ask, if you take a survey

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of elderly people in Japan, many of them, actually want

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to continue working not only for economic reasons, but also

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because they obtain, you know,

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more meaning in their life, in their lives from,

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from continuing to work.

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So if we enable the elderly people to work longer,

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it will not only help the economy as a whole

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by alleviating labor shortages,

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but also, make the elderly people themselves,

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better off.

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And by the same token,

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I think the Japanese government should take steps to,

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make better use of female workers,

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because of course, female workers, females also want to,

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engage in productive work.

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And despite, you know, various laws that have been passed

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to alleviate discrimination against women,

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they still are faced with, you know, subtle, subtle,

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discrimination, even, even today.

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So, and those policies, you know,

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encouraging elderly and, females to work more,

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they would not necessarily cost the

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government all that much money.

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So I think those are, policies that should be,

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given, priority, I

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Totally agree with about the

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providing, or supporting, research and development

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and also, play a role in say,

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establishing the good labor market where older people

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and female people can work more effectively.

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Professor Roberta, as global trade tension drives,

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how can Japan adapt its foreign policy to ensure

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that its domestic economic challenges do not limit its

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international growth potential?

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Well, with the shrinking population,

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Japan's domestic market expected to contract,

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making exports increasingly vital for economic growth,

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Japan must strengthen its innovation capability

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by promoting research and development r and d,

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and improving the quality of human resources,

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engaged in r

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and d, international collaboration in r

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and d is particularly important,

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and I think Japanese government can play a significant role

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in supporting those research, research initiatives

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and human resource development.

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Uh, and this is a kind of petition of

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what I said earlier on, what the said earlier.

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Uh, attracting skilled foreign researchers

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on hightech foreign firms, is essential

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for advancing research and development.

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Here, Japanese government can, facilitate the inflow

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of foreign calling

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and foreign investment by,

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reforming re regulations.

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Additionally, to bolster the competitiveness

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of high tech industries such as semiconductor industry,

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the government can provide incentives such as subsidies.

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Uh, however, it is very important to ensure

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that these subsidies are allocated

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and utilized effectively to maximize their impact.

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So one of the best policies that Japan,

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can do in the trade area as Professor Ruta was suggesting,

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was to, cooperate with, any countries

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that are willing to co cooperate with Japan in order to,

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maintain a free trade regime to,

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establish more free trade areas and so on.

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And to try to convince, you know, certain countries

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that, protectionism is, is, not good for anybody.

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That both sides lose from protectionism,

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both sides gain from free trade.

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And that we should, you know, go back to, trying to,

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maintain a free trade regime.

Quick Answers

Japan's Economic Challenges and Future Strategies

00:00:14 - This week, we dive into the internal dynamics of Japan's economy, exploring how it is managing an aging population, shifting consumer patterns and rising inflation. We'll also look at Japan's role in global trade and how it is adapting to a rapidly changing international landscape. Joining me today are two prominent voices in this field. Duta, professor of Economics at Waseda University, an expert on Japan's economic policy and its place in global trade. Charles Hoka, professor at Colwell University, known

00:00:48 - including household savings, consumption, and fiscal policy. Great to have you both here. Let's begin with you, professor Hoka. Japan's aging population and low birth rates are putting pressure on its economy, shifting the balance between savings and consumption. We're also seeing rising inflation, which is affecting real household income and spending patterns. Professor Hoka, how do these demographic shifts affect household savings and consumption patterns, and what long-term implications does this have

00:01:18 - Well, I believe that the, dramatic, demographic shifts that you were describing will have, profound effects on, the, consumption and behavior of, Japanese households. I want to, in order to make my point clearer, I want to use a model that economists very often use the lifecycle model. It's, it's just basically common sense, but according to the lifecycle model, when people are, young, they work earn income and save part of their income in order

Effects of Aging Population on Savings and Consumption

00:01:50 - And when people, become older, they retire, and, finance their living expenses by drawing down their previously accumulated savings. in other words, they diss save. So the more, so young people, they, work and save old, older people, they retire and they diss save. So, as the population ages, we'll have more older people who are, retired

00:02:23 - fewer young people who are, working and saving. Therefore, there's a danger that, there will be, a shortage, of, workers and also a shortage of saving in the economy as a whole. And this will, of course, you know, have, a very, negative impact on, economic growth, in the, in the economy. And, another, change that will occur is that there will be, big shifts in consumption patterns

00:02:56 - So obviously the, consumption categories that the older people, are, overrepresented in such as, leisure related activities, health, related expenditures, long-term care related expenditures, these types of expenditures will increase their share as the population ages and the, categories that are, favored by younger, people.

Japan's Aging Population and Monetary Policy Impact

00:03:28 - education related expenditures, work related expenditures, will, will decline. So, it's not clear whether the consumption will increase or decrease, but there will be profound shifts in the composition of, consumption. So these are some of the very profound changes that will occur, in saving in consumption patterns as the population ages. Turning To monetary policy, the Bank of Japan recently raised interest rates

00:03:58 - How will these moves impact household behavior, particularly regarding savings and consumption? Will this lead to more cautious spending or help stabilize inflation? All countries have to deal with a, trade-off between, inflation and, the state of the economy. if the, country's central bank, in this case the Bank of Japan is its interest rates, this will certainly help bring inflation under control. but at the same time, it will lower, economic growth

00:04:34 - businesses will be, less willing to borrow to finance, you know, investment in, new factories or equipment and so on. And consumers, households will be, less willing to borrow in order to, purchase housing, automobiles, furniture, electrical appliances, and so on. I think that what, matters, more than, inflation is, the relationship between the rate of increase

Challenges of Wage and Inflation Dynamics in Japan

00:05:03 - of increase of wages. Yeah. Even if inflation is, you know, say 10%, if, if if inflation, prices is, 10%, if the inflation of, wages is also 10%, people will still be able to maintain the same standard of living. So we don't really have to, worry. So, what I think is the biggest problem is in Japan is not inflation,

00:05:32 - that wa the increase in wages has been lagging behind the, increase in prices, meaning that people's standard of living, has been, declining. I would be, a little bit hesitant about, you know, continually increasing interest rates because although that will, bring down inflation, it will also have negative impact on the economy. What I would favor would be to be more cautious about raising interest rates, but giving more attention to, increasing wages

00:06:07 - to pay higher wages, to their workers. Japan has historically been an export driven economy, but global trade dynamics are shifting. Japan has been a key player in the trade agreements such as C-P-T-P-P, but rising trade tensions are testing its strategies. Professor Ruta, how the trade agreements like c PT PP shape Japan's global economic influence, and what role will they play as Japan navigates rising geopolitical tensions?

Japan's Trade Agreements and Geopolitical Challenges

00:06:37 - and then I turn to the first question. The second question you asked concern the role of trade agreements like c PT PP in helping Japan navigate rising geopolitical tensions. as you noted earlier, exports play a crucial role in Japanese economy as a country with limited natural resources. Japan relies heavily on, imports

00:07:11 - To pay for these imports, Japan must earn foreign exchange through exports for Japan to, successfully expand its exports. An open rules based trading environment is essential. The World Trade Organization, WTO, is expected to provide such a framework, but the, WTO has struggled to fulfill this role

00:07:47 - trade system, particularly, different views between developed and developing companies. And moreover, the global trading environment has become increasingly complex and unstable due to rising geopolitical tensions. given these challenges, Japan has sort

Importance of Trade Agreements in Japan's Economic Strategy

00:08:17 - like-minded countries by forming pre trade agreements, FDAs, such as the C-P-T-P-P, comprehensive and progressive agreement for nonspecific partnership. FDAs would help facilitate played by eliminating import types among member countries in creating more predictable and stable trade environment.

00:08:49 - including c, PT P, and the, another big one is called regional comprehensive Economic Partnership Asset. and approximately, about 80%, 80% of Japan's total trade is conducted with FDA partner countries. So, now, let me quickly,

00:09:17 - How do trade agreements like the C-P-T-P-P shape the past global, economic influence? As I mentioned earlier, the WTO is not effectively providing an open rules based trading system. In response, Japan is working hard to, build a such system by establishing and expanding pre-trade agreements. FTOs, and let me add another key point, that is,

Japan's Evolving Trade Policies

00:09:55 - it would still struggle to provide us through fully effective global trading system. One major issue is its, limited scope. It does not adequately cover critical areas such as climate change or environmental regulations and the digital economy. These areas are increasingly important

00:10:25 - In contrast, many of Japan's f fda, others these, emerging issues. Furthermore, Japan is actively working to establish trade agreements focused on specific areas such as digital trade to further enhance the, regional and global trading system. Through these efforts, Japan's expanding its economic influence on contributing to the development

00:10:57 - and forward looking international trade, framework. Exports and sectors like automobiles have face challenges, and Japan is increasingly focused on the high demand industries like semiconductors. How should Japan adapt its foreign trade policies to maintain competitiveness, especially with ongoing global shifts? To support the production of these products, Japan must secure a stable supply of critical minerals, such

Diversifying Supply Chains and Trade Agreements for Japan's High-Tech Manufacturing

00:11:30 - semiconductor on high tech manufacturing. To ensure a reliable supply chains, the plan should reduce its dependence on, on a few countries and diversify its import sources. In terms of trade policy, the fund should leverage existing trade agreement such as CPP, repeat myself, I negotiate new agreements

00:12:05 - These essential materials regarding new trade agreements, priorities should be given to countries in, in Latin America, which include Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay, because they can supply both food and political minerals. African countries, are also strong candidates

00:12:34 - to supply critical minerals. These agreements would facilitate Japan, Japanese firms investment in projects focused on good production and the extraction of critical minerals, which could then be exported to Japan. Additionally, trade agreements play crucial role in expanding export market for Japanese product. As I said earlier

Japan's Fiscal and Monetary Policy Recommendations

00:13:05 - economic challenges and its position in the global market. Professor Hoka, given the multiple challenges Japan faces, what fiscal and monetary policies do you think the Japanese government should pursue? Well, you ask a very, difficult question. not only is Japan, simultaneously facing many, challenges domestic as well as international. the Japanese, government's hands are basically tied because Japan has a huge government debt to GDP ratio.

00:13:40 - among the developed countries. And, this, government debt to GDP ratio is projected to rise even more in the future as the population ages and the government, has to increase spending on, programs for the elderly, such as, pensions, healthcare, long-term care, and so on. So, as a result, the Japanese government cannot afford to,

00:14:11 - stimulate the economy, to help households to increase the competitiveness of Japanese products abroad. So what I would recommend instead is that the Japanese government engage in targeted programs that don't cost as much, but have a big bang for the buck. for example, helping only the, people who really are in need or, perhaps, subsidizing, research and development, not only by businesses, but also by, universities

Japan's Labor Policy Recommendations

00:14:43 - increase the competitiveness of Japanese products abroad. And, another policy that I would recommend is, for the government to take steps to, enable workers to continue working for longer periods of time until, preferably until their seventies. because as I mentioned earlier, population aging, could potentially lead to severe labor shortages. But actually, if you ask, if you take a survey

00:15:13 - to continue working not only for economic reasons, but also because they obtain, you know, more meaning in their life, in their lives from, from continuing to work. So if we enable the elderly people to work longer, it will not only help the economy as a whole by alleviating labor shortages, but also, make the elderly people themselves, better off. And by the same token, I think the Japanese government should take steps to,

00:15:43 - because of course, female workers, females also want to, engage in productive work. And despite, you know, various laws that have been passed to alleviate discrimination against women, they still are faced with, you know, subtle, subtle, discrimination, even, even today. So, and those policies, you know, encouraging elderly and, females to work more,

Japan's Foreign Policy for Economic Growth

00:16:13 - government all that much money. So I think those are, policies that should be, given, priority, I Totally agree with about the providing, or supporting, research and development and also, play a role in say, establishing the good labor market where older people and female people can work more effectively.

00:16:46 - how can Japan adapt its foreign policy to ensure that its domestic economic challenges do not limit its international growth potential? Well, with the shrinking population, Japan's domestic market expected to contract, making exports increasingly vital for economic growth, Japan must strengthen its innovation capability by promoting research and development r and d,

00:17:21 - engaged in r and d, international collaboration in r and d is particularly important, and I think Japanese government can play a significant role in supporting those research, research initiatives and human resource development. and this is a kind of petition of what I said earlier on, what the said earlier.

Promoting High-Tech Foreign Investment for R&D Growth

00:17:53 - on hightech foreign firms, is essential for advancing research and development. Here, Japanese government can, facilitate the inflow of foreign calling and foreign investment by, reforming re regulations. Additionally, to bolster the competitiveness of high tech industries such as semiconductor industry,

00:18:26 - however, it is very important to ensure that these subsidies are allocated and utilized effectively to maximize their impact. So one of the best policies that Japan, can do in the trade area as Professor Ruta was suggesting, was to, cooperate with, any countries that are willing to co cooperate with Japan in order to,

00:19:14 - establish more free trade areas and so on. And to try to convince, you know, certain countries that, protectionism is, is, not good for anybody. That both sides lose from protectionism, both sides gain from free trade. And that we should, you know, go back to, trying to, maintain a free trade regime.

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