Popular in History

Arts and Humanities

Freedom’s Dominion

Vanderbilt University Jefferson Cowie

Arts and Humanities

Titus Quinctius Flamininus’ “Italian triumph”

McGill University Michael Fronda

Arts and Humanities

Lincoln and the Jews

Brandeis University Jonathan Sarna

Arts and Humanities

Early Modern Natural Law Theories

University of Copenhagen Knud Haakonssen

Arts and Humanities

Phoenicians Among Others: Why Migrants Mattered in the Ancient Mediterranean

University of California San Diego Denise Demetriou

Arts and Humanities

The loneliness of leadership

University of Liverpool Elaine Chalus

Arts and Humanities

The Spear, the Scroll, and the Pebble

View more insights in Arts and Humanities - History - Classics

View more figures from Columbia University

View the page of Richard Billows

Read the Study

Next in Arts and Humanities

Election Integrity in a One-Party Dictatorship

David Brandenberger | University of Richmond

The Poverty of Disaster: Debt and Insecurity in Eighteenth-Century Britain

Tawny Paul | University of California Los Angeles

How the Greek City-State Developed as a Male Warrior-Citizen Collective

Image courtesy of interviewee. December 20, 2024

Log-in or Sign-up to Faculti
Currently viewing this subject insight as a guest. You have insight(s) remaining for this month. Login to view 8000+ figures on the platform.

Generating Workspace...

Export as PDF

The speaker discusses their long-standing fascination with the Greek city-state as a crucial social, political, and cultural phenomenon. They considered writing a book on the origins of the Greek city-state but delayed due to another scholar's project on the subject. Over time, they realized their focus was on how Greek culture developed in small-scale, relatively equal sociopolitical communities (ate) and the resultant cultural, political, and social dynamics.

The speaker emphasizes the unique aspects of Greek culture, particularly its development of democracy and rational inquiry, contrasting it with other ancient cultures like the Judaic and Roman societies. They explore the idea that the Greek city-state, characterized by politically active, literate male citizens, shaped its distinctive features.

The transition from the Bronze Age civilizations to the emergence of the city-state was marked by a period of decline (circa 1050-850 BCE), potentially linked to climate changes. From this decline, the Greeks established new settlements, leading to autonomous city-states that further evolved due to trade, especially with the Phoenicians.

The speaker attributes Greece's eventual economic and cultural development to interaction with other societies, particularly through maritime trade, which introduced advanced manufacturing techniques. This video trade also allowed for the proliferation of a citizen militia, where male citizens equipped themselves for warfare, fostering a sense of civic duty and demand for political participation.

They discuss the evolution of political systems amidst rising citizen militias. The political power shifted as ordinary warriors began to demand a say in governance, leading to forms of democracy, particularly in city-states like Athens. The speaker notes that while these democratic structures emerged, there remained significant marginalization of women and enslaved individuals.

Education and literacy were crucial to this system; as more citizens learned to read and write, they could participate more effectively in public discourse. Public notice boards disseminated information about laws and political proceedings, encouraging literacy among ordinary citizens, not just elites.

The speaker argues that literacy led to new ways of thinking, fostering philosophical and rational discourse, which characterized Greek culture. They highlight the importance of public education and equitable economic conditions for sustaining democratic governance.

Finally, they draw contemporary parallels, cautioning against widening economic disparities that could jeopardize collective governance systems. The speaker concludes by recognizing the inherent inequalities of Greek society and urges readers to reflect on these dynamics in today's context.

Language:

Export as PDF

X-TIMESTAMP-MAP=LOCAL:00:00:00.000,MPEGTS:90000

1
00:00:00.025 --> 00:00:03.445
Had been fascinated by the Greek city state as a,

2
00:00:03.665 --> 00:00:07.445
social, political and cultural phenomenon, for decades.

3
00:00:09.025 --> 00:00:12.285
Um, and, I, I thought,

4
00:00:12.755 --> 00:00:16.915
some 20 years ago actually, of writing a book on the origin

5
00:00:16.975 --> 00:00:18.315
of the Greek city state.

6
00:00:19.645 --> 00:00:20.865
Uh, but then a,

7
00:00:21.105 --> 00:00:25.225
a scholar in Denmark named Morgan's handsome,

8
00:00:25.785 --> 00:00:27.145
received a large grant

9
00:00:28.175 --> 00:00:31.115
to do an international project on the city state.

10
00:00:32.335 --> 00:00:34.155
And I figured, hmm, you know,

11
00:00:35.655 --> 00:00:37.875
not much point doing this now, better wait

12
00:00:37.875 --> 00:00:39.075
and see what they do.

13
00:00:40.255 --> 00:00:44.315
Um, and over the years since then, looking at

14
00:00:44.315 --> 00:00:46.575
what they produced,

15
00:00:46.675 --> 00:00:49.975
and thinking more about the city state, I realized that,

16
00:00:49.975 --> 00:00:54.855
what I was really interested in, was how, the

17
00:00:55.905 --> 00:00:58.855
Greek culture was able to develop

18
00:01:00.775 --> 00:01:04.775
specifically in this context of small scale,

19
00:01:05.895 --> 00:01:09.995
sociopolitical communities that Greeks called ate,

20
00:01:10.025 --> 00:01:14.985
that we translate as city states with a high degree of,

21
00:01:16.165 --> 00:01:19.235
relative equality

22
00:01:20.555 --> 00:01:23.975
or large numbers of men, specifically

23
00:01:25.395 --> 00:01:26.535
in these communities.

24
00:01:27.555 --> 00:01:31.295
Um, and that led to a series of,

25
00:01:32.475 --> 00:01:36.935
consequences culturally,

26
00:01:37.165 --> 00:01:40.805
politically, and socially that made the,

27
00:01:40.945 --> 00:01:42.365
the Greeks the unique people.

28
00:01:42.435 --> 00:01:44.965
They are, they are in world history.

29
00:01:46.235 --> 00:01:50.515
Um, and, you know, I,

30
00:01:51.375 --> 00:01:53.115
the book is as much as anything.

31
00:01:53.735 --> 00:01:57.435
Um, I look at the, the, the role of

32
00:01:57.615 --> 00:02:01.705
and concept of masculinity, in Greek culture,

33
00:02:02.765 --> 00:02:06.185
along with the sort of the well trodden

34
00:02:06.795 --> 00:02:10.545
ideas about the development of democracy,

35
00:02:10.805 --> 00:02:12.465
and all the cultural stuff.

36
00:02:12.645 --> 00:02:16.465
You know, how did the Greeks develop this fascination with,

37
00:02:17.525 --> 00:02:19.865
rational thinking

38
00:02:20.165 --> 00:02:24.985
and rational investigation as opposed to say the ancient,

39
00:02:25.445 --> 00:02:28.365
Judaic people,

40
00:02:28.785 --> 00:02:32.445
who were more interested in developing the religious side

41
00:02:33.685 --> 00:02:36.055
of human thought, or,

42
00:02:36.115 --> 00:02:40.295
or say the Romans who were very interested in,

43
00:02:40.825 --> 00:02:42.495
legal and administrative

44
00:02:43.075 --> 00:02:45.215
and power politics, that kind of thing.

45
00:02:45.445 --> 00:02:49.135
Each people started out as a relatively small

46
00:02:50.675 --> 00:02:54.925
society, in the broader framework of the ancient

47
00:02:55.715 --> 00:02:57.805
Mediterranean and Western Asian

48
00:02:57.905 --> 00:02:59.605
and North African world system.

49
00:03:00.795 --> 00:03:04.935
And yet they each made extraordinary contributions for,

50
00:03:05.075 --> 00:03:09.295
for better or worse people judge differently, you know,

51
00:03:09.635 --> 00:03:11.935
how good or useful their contributions were.

52
00:03:11.955 --> 00:03:14.295
But they certainly have been enormously influential.

53
00:03:15.825 --> 00:03:20.045
Um, and, sort of looking at what the Greeks did

54
00:03:20.065 --> 00:03:23.525
and how they did it and why they did it, it seems

55
00:03:23.525 --> 00:03:27.355
to me it's, it's fundamentally,

56
00:03:27.835 --> 00:03:32.365
embedded in the nature of the city state as this,

57
00:03:32.785 --> 00:03:36.885
male collective of warriors

58
00:03:37.145 --> 00:03:40.445
who were politically active and literate.

59
00:03:42.075 --> 00:03:46.215
And that's, you know, really the impetus

60
00:03:46.215 --> 00:03:49.375
and point of the book, the Greek world, along with much

61
00:03:49.375 --> 00:03:51.975
of the Eastern Mediterranean

62
00:03:51.975 --> 00:03:55.885
and Western Asian region went through, a kind

63
00:03:55.885 --> 00:03:59.305
of long depression between about 10 50

64
00:04:00.135 --> 00:04:04.465
when the high civilizations of the Bronze Age,

65
00:04:05.005 --> 00:04:07.825
got into trouble for reasons that we don't fully understand

66
00:04:09.135 --> 00:04:10.485
until about eight 50.

67
00:04:10.945 --> 00:04:13.525
Uh, and there's been a lot of debate among archeologists

68
00:04:13.785 --> 00:04:17.865
and, historical scholars

69
00:04:17.865 --> 00:04:19.745
and so on about, you know, how

70
00:04:19.745 --> 00:04:23.005
and why this depressed era came about.

71
00:04:23.875 --> 00:04:27.455
Um, one theory that, I think is quite interesting is

72
00:04:27.455 --> 00:04:29.055
that it had to do with some kind

73
00:04:29.055 --> 00:04:31.445
of climate change in that era.

74
00:04:31.625 --> 00:04:33.605
It makes it kind of topical, obviously,

75
00:04:34.785 --> 00:04:36.725
but what we don't really know, there's a lot

76
00:04:36.725 --> 00:04:38.045
of research still going on.

77
00:04:38.965 --> 00:04:42.465
Um, but the Greek, specifically as they emerged from this,

78
00:04:42.805 --> 00:04:46.545
depressed era,

79
00:04:48.635 --> 00:04:51.245
developed, new settlements.

80
00:04:51.385 --> 00:04:54.925
So the, the old Bronze Age settlements had largely been

81
00:04:54.925 --> 00:04:58.225
abandoned by 10 50.

82
00:04:59.255 --> 00:05:03.235
Uh, and Greece, began to settle into new settlements,

83
00:05:03.235 --> 00:05:04.675
beginning around eight 50

84
00:05:04.815 --> 00:05:08.865
and developed them into urban settlements,

85
00:05:09.125 --> 00:05:12.185
and expand, agriculture.

86
00:05:13.105 --> 00:05:15.405
But they did so in a kind of piecemeal way.

87
00:05:16.105 --> 00:05:20.715
Um, the landscape of Greece, is very mountainous.

88
00:05:21.215 --> 00:05:24.515
Uh, it's estimated that, only about 20%

89
00:05:24.535 --> 00:05:28.205
of Greece is made up of, low land suitable

90
00:05:28.385 --> 00:05:29.445
for agriculture.

91
00:05:30.765 --> 00:05:34.305
Uh, and as these communities developed, they were,

92
00:05:34.485 --> 00:05:38.835
cut off from each other, by, you know,

93
00:05:39.275 --> 00:05:41.115
mountain ranges of various sorts.

94
00:05:41.175 --> 00:05:44.835
So they developed, autonomously,

95
00:05:46.175 --> 00:05:47.195
but at the same time,

96
00:05:47.225 --> 00:05:49.035
they were in contact with each other.

97
00:05:49.295 --> 00:05:52.755
Uh, most of the settlements of classical Greece are on

98
00:05:52.775 --> 00:05:55.775
or close to the coast,

99
00:05:56.275 --> 00:05:59.195
and, you know, they were in touch with each other

100
00:05:59.655 --> 00:06:01.435
and by coasting along.

101
00:06:02.515 --> 00:06:06.925
Um, and what happened is a process

102
00:06:07.155 --> 00:06:10.125
that some people have called pure polity interaction,

103
00:06:10.735 --> 00:06:15.225
where a group of relatively, equals,

104
00:06:15.375 --> 00:06:19.415
societies grow up, in one larger sphere,

105
00:06:20.895 --> 00:06:22.895
interacting with each other in a mix

106
00:06:22.895 --> 00:06:24.935
of cooperation and rivalry.

107
00:06:26.775 --> 00:06:31.305
Uh, and that the result of

108
00:06:31.305 --> 00:06:35.225
that in Greece at this time was

109
00:06:35.225 --> 00:06:38.985
that rather than getting, the emergence of

110
00:06:39.555 --> 00:06:43.025
large centralized states,

111
00:06:44.405 --> 00:06:47.505
of the, the empire type that you see in the Near East,

112
00:06:47.605 --> 00:06:52.285
in Egypt or in Mesopotamia, you get these,

113
00:06:52.285 --> 00:06:57.085
relatively small independent communities, many

114
00:06:57.105 --> 00:07:01.745
of which developed, urban cores, that,

115
00:07:02.005 --> 00:07:04.145
created what we call the city state.

116
00:07:04.365 --> 00:07:08.725
Now, these in, in,

117
00:07:08.725 --> 00:07:11.765
in principle should have remained quite small based on

118
00:07:12.235 --> 00:07:15.365
what we call the carrying capacity of the Greek land.

119
00:07:15.365 --> 00:07:18.125
That is to say how much food can be grown

120
00:07:19.505 --> 00:07:21.965
on Greek soil to feed the population.

121
00:07:23.405 --> 00:07:25.865
But what happened with these Greek city states is

122
00:07:25.865 --> 00:07:28.545
that they started to learn from other,

123
00:07:28.695 --> 00:07:31.665
more advanced near Eastern societies, particularly

124
00:07:31.805 --> 00:07:33.225
of people called the Phoenician,

125
00:07:34.495 --> 00:07:36.115
who live in what is today, the Lebanon.

126
00:07:36.295 --> 00:07:39.405
And the Venetians had developed a role

127
00:07:39.665 --> 00:07:42.125
as middlemen in Mediterranean trade.

128
00:07:43.075 --> 00:07:46.885
They explored the Mediterranean Sea creating trade routes,

129
00:07:48.205 --> 00:07:53.185
sort of exchanging the, advanced products

130
00:07:53.185 --> 00:07:57.585
of the near Eastern civilizations, to their east

131
00:07:57.585 --> 00:07:58.665
and south Egypt

132
00:07:58.685 --> 00:08:03.465
and Mesopotamia for all kinds of wonderful raw materials,

133
00:08:03.845 --> 00:08:07.935
timber, rain, metal wars,

134
00:08:08.835 --> 00:08:11.765
heights to make leather from

135
00:08:11.765 --> 00:08:14.085
and so on from the Western Mediterranean.

136
00:08:15.475 --> 00:08:18.055
Uh, and their trade routes took them past Greeks

137
00:08:18.395 --> 00:08:21.415
and the developing Greek communities noticed this

138
00:08:22.265 --> 00:08:25.085
and began to interact with them and learn from them.

139
00:08:25.875 --> 00:08:29.375
Uh, they learned from them pretty certainly how

140
00:08:29.375 --> 00:08:32.815
to build ships by observing the ships

141
00:08:32.845 --> 00:08:35.595
that these Phoenician sailed in,

142
00:08:35.785 --> 00:08:37.395
they tracked their trade routes

143
00:08:37.815 --> 00:08:40.635
and began to actively trade along the same routes.

144
00:08:41.785 --> 00:08:43.805
Uh, they borrowed the writing system

145
00:08:44.155 --> 00:08:47.815
that the Phoenician had, which was a kind

146
00:08:47.815 --> 00:08:51.455
of proto alphabet, consisting only of consummate no vowels,

147
00:08:53.085 --> 00:08:56.125
and the brakes borrowed this system, added symbols

148
00:08:56.125 --> 00:09:00.085
for vowel sounds, and created the first full alphabet.

149
00:09:01.655 --> 00:09:06.075
Um, and in this way, you get, a development of,

150
00:09:06.895 --> 00:09:10.515
the Greek economy through trading exchanges,

151
00:09:11.725 --> 00:09:15.985
the learning of, advanced,

152
00:09:15.985 --> 00:09:18.425
manufacturing techniques from the Near East,

153
00:09:18.725 --> 00:09:20.145
and then building on

154
00:09:20.365 --> 00:09:23.525
and improving those techniques,

155
00:09:23.925 --> 00:09:27.965
creating carbonated steel to make top quality tools

156
00:09:27.985 --> 00:09:29.245
and weapons, for example.

157
00:09:30.675 --> 00:09:34.735
Uh, and then bringing extra wealth into Greece

158
00:09:34.915 --> 00:09:38.055
to enable the Greek population to continue growing

159
00:09:39.675 --> 00:09:43.045
well past what I've called the carrying capacity

160
00:09:43.045 --> 00:09:45.285
of the land, so that these

161
00:09:45.835 --> 00:09:49.865
initially very small city states, some of them at least,

162
00:09:49.925 --> 00:09:51.425
can be clung quite large,

163
00:09:52.545 --> 00:09:55.125
and begin to develop quite a sophisticated

164
00:09:55.345 --> 00:09:59.675
and advanced economic, and social structure.

165
00:09:59.935 --> 00:10:02.035
One of the advantages of the, the growth

166
00:10:02.095 --> 00:10:04.315
of wealth in these city states

167
00:10:05.985 --> 00:10:09.765
and, the importation of

168
00:10:10.905 --> 00:10:12.565
raw materials, timber

169
00:10:12.985 --> 00:10:16.765
and metals, specifically from the Western Mediterranean

170
00:10:17.385 --> 00:10:22.095
and from around the Black Sea eventually, was that,

171
00:10:23.075 --> 00:10:26.655
it enabled the rise of what one, for lack

172
00:10:26.655 --> 00:10:28.415
of a better term, might call a middle class.

173
00:10:29.995 --> 00:10:34.335
Uh, and, you know, political theorists

174
00:10:34.475 --> 00:10:39.125
and various don't like the use of the term class to refer

175
00:10:39.125 --> 00:10:40.525
to things in the ancient world,

176
00:10:40.525 --> 00:10:42.965
because, you know, it's connected with the whole notion

177
00:10:42.965 --> 00:10:45.205
of a class system and, you know,

178
00:10:45.315 --> 00:10:47.205
Marxist ideas of class and so on.

179
00:10:47.205 --> 00:10:48.845
And one doesn't mean it in that way, it's just

180
00:10:49.565 --> 00:10:50.605
a middling element.

181
00:10:50.785 --> 00:10:53.525
One might say neither very rich nor very poor.

182
00:10:53.585 --> 00:10:56.385
But in between,

183
00:10:56.845 --> 00:11:00.705
and, the advances in,

184
00:11:01.235 --> 00:11:06.075
metal working and other manufacturing, the amount of,

185
00:11:06.615 --> 00:11:09.555
wealth that was being produced,

186
00:11:11.415 --> 00:11:16.175
and the growth in population made it possible

187
00:11:16.195 --> 00:11:17.335
for the Greeks to develop

188
00:11:17.525 --> 00:11:19.975
what we call a citizen militia style of warfare.

189
00:11:21.405 --> 00:11:22.975
Citizen militia means

190
00:11:23.085 --> 00:11:25.455
that rather than having professional soldiers

191
00:11:26.515 --> 00:11:29.775
either from one's own population who were conscripted

192
00:11:30.195 --> 00:11:33.635
or, you know, volunteer to serve for pay

193
00:11:34.255 --> 00:11:38.165
or mercenary soldiers drawn from elsewhere,

194
00:11:38.505 --> 00:11:41.965
you require or expect the citizens of the community,

195
00:11:42.065 --> 00:11:43.885
the male citizens of the community,

196
00:11:44.865 --> 00:11:49.175
to equip themselves at their own expense with,

197
00:11:50.075 --> 00:11:55.065
fairly, advanced weaponry

198
00:11:55.085 --> 00:11:59.445
and armor, and then to serve,

199
00:11:59.545 --> 00:12:02.365
as a matter of, civic duty

200
00:12:03.305 --> 00:12:07.425
and pride, the,

201
00:12:07.425 --> 00:12:09.145
the military needs of the community.

202
00:12:09.145 --> 00:12:11.505
And because these communities were,

203
00:12:13.425 --> 00:12:17.725
in rivalry with each other, tended to develop,

204
00:12:18.165 --> 00:12:21.845
conflicts over border territories,

205
00:12:21.915 --> 00:12:24.685
warfare was pretty endemic,

206
00:12:24.865 --> 00:12:26.445
in the Greek city state world,

207
00:12:27.075 --> 00:12:28.925
usually fairly low key warfare.

208
00:12:29.185 --> 00:12:32.875
It would be, two, two city states

209
00:12:33.755 --> 00:12:35.835
neighboring each other would have a dispute over

210
00:12:35.835 --> 00:12:37.115
some border territory.

211
00:12:38.245 --> 00:12:40.025
Uh, they'd have a fight about it.

212
00:12:40.165 --> 00:12:41.265
One side would win

213
00:12:41.365 --> 00:12:43.825
and seize control of the border territory.

214
00:12:44.925 --> 00:12:48.265
And then 20 years later, the side that had lost would,

215
00:12:48.815 --> 00:12:49.905
feel more confident

216
00:12:49.965 --> 00:12:54.825
and the grown, you know, a new generation of warriors,

217
00:12:54.825 --> 00:12:57.785
and they, that border territory should be ours.

218
00:12:58.285 --> 00:12:59.785
They'd go and fight for it again.

219
00:13:00.965 --> 00:13:05.105
Um, so the, the duty of the citizen warrior

220
00:13:05.605 --> 00:13:09.065
to stand up for his community in this way

221
00:13:09.825 --> 00:13:12.685
became an ingrained part of the way of life.

222
00:13:14.235 --> 00:13:18.015
And because the citizen warrior was serving

223
00:13:18.635 --> 00:13:23.025
at his own expense as a matter of duty and honor,

224
00:13:23.205 --> 00:13:26.145
and putting his life on the line along with all

225
00:13:26.145 --> 00:13:30.695
of his fellow citizens, the idea arose that

226
00:13:31.275 --> 00:13:35.255
we should have a say, in who we're fighting

227
00:13:35.395 --> 00:13:37.415
and when we're fighting, and why we're fighting,

228
00:13:37.985 --> 00:13:41.315
because we are the ones who are paying for this.

229
00:13:42.465 --> 00:13:45.475
Both, you know, in terms of wealth spending,

230
00:13:45.525 --> 00:13:48.675
disposable wealth on equipping ourselves in this way,

231
00:13:49.595 --> 00:13:53.015
but also in terms of risk and blood of getting wounded

232
00:13:53.075 --> 00:13:54.735
and occasionally even killed.

233
00:13:56.315 --> 00:13:57.615
Um, we should have a voice.

234
00:13:58.315 --> 00:14:03.015
And because, you know, eventually in a city state like,

235
00:14:03.655 --> 00:14:05.535
Sparta or Athens or Thebes

236
00:14:05.535 --> 00:14:10.155
or Argos, there might be as many as, six or eight

237
00:14:10.175 --> 00:14:13.735
or 10,000 heavily armored,

238
00:14:13.925 --> 00:14:18.585
well-equipped warriors of the type we call hot lights,

239
00:14:18.585 --> 00:14:22.145
which is, is a Greek word, meaning heavily armed,

240
00:14:22.975 --> 00:14:24.225
heavily armed warrior.

241
00:14:25.825 --> 00:14:28.965
Um, you know, when when you've got that many men feeling

242
00:14:29.075 --> 00:14:32.985
that they deserve a say,

243
00:14:33.175 --> 00:14:34.505
it's hard to deny them.

244
00:14:35.125 --> 00:14:39.945
And in a process of political change, that usually,

245
00:14:40.285 --> 00:14:44.105
involve backing, initially populist leaders

246
00:14:44.285 --> 00:14:47.225
who promised change, who took power

247
00:14:48.235 --> 00:14:51.725
as autocratic dictators, the Greeks called them turano,

248
00:14:52.705 --> 00:14:55.015
which is the origin of the English word, tyrants,

249
00:14:55.315 --> 00:14:58.135
but they were not necessarily tyrants in the modern sense.

250
00:14:58.925 --> 00:15:01.735
They were sort of autocratic,

251
00:15:02.745 --> 00:15:04.645
populist leaders.

252
00:15:05.905 --> 00:15:09.235
They, that broke the power of the traditional

253
00:15:10.275 --> 00:15:14.955
aristocratic elites that had grown up in early times

254
00:15:16.125 --> 00:15:20.185
and created, new, political systems

255
00:15:20.335 --> 00:15:24.385
that involved, warriors having

256
00:15:25.045 --> 00:15:27.625
an equal say in the political process

257
00:15:28.665 --> 00:15:31.875
through regular public meetings in assemblies.

258
00:15:34.155 --> 00:15:39.055
And then, electing usually or

259
00:15:39.055 --> 00:15:41.095
otherwise, appointing in some way,

260
00:15:41.595 --> 00:15:45.575
representative state councils drawn from the citizen body at

261
00:15:45.575 --> 00:15:49.815
large, who oversaw the, sort

262
00:15:49.895 --> 00:15:52.015
of day-to-day governance of the city states,

263
00:15:52.155 --> 00:15:55.015
and ensure that the will of the citizens

264
00:15:55.635 --> 00:15:58.135
as expressed in assembly was actually carried out.

265
00:15:59.435 --> 00:16:00.735
And all of this is male.

266
00:16:01.685 --> 00:16:05.025
It is rooted in the men who fight.

267
00:16:06.745 --> 00:16:10.085
Uh, and that led to marginalization of women

268
00:16:10.185 --> 00:16:11.205
and women's rights.

269
00:16:11.625 --> 00:16:15.375
And there was, of course, also an enslaved class,

270
00:16:15.745 --> 00:16:18.575
doing a lot of the, you know, the, the,

271
00:16:18.575 --> 00:16:19.775
the lower level work,

272
00:16:20.355 --> 00:16:21.415
or doesn't wanna pretend

273
00:16:21.415 --> 00:16:23.695
that Greek city states were perfect by any means.

274
00:16:24.315 --> 00:16:29.125
But you do get this, within the, the, the sort

275
00:16:29.125 --> 00:16:33.645
of the masculine group of warrior citizens.

276
00:16:34.645 --> 00:16:37.545
You get an idea of individual worth

277
00:16:38.655 --> 00:16:42.155
and of, having an equal say in things

278
00:16:43.325 --> 00:16:45.735
that is, remarkable.

279
00:16:45.915 --> 00:16:48.295
And so far as we can tell new,

280
00:16:48.295 --> 00:16:51.975
in these Greek city states, what we see in the earliest form

281
00:16:51.975 --> 00:16:54.255
of Greek society that we have record of,

282
00:16:54.255 --> 00:16:58.605
which is in the epic poems of Hallmark, is

283
00:16:58.675 --> 00:17:00.725
that the, the,

284
00:17:00.725 --> 00:17:05.085
communities depicted in the Homeric epics,

285
00:17:05.355 --> 00:17:08.005
were run by aristocratic lords.

286
00:17:10.115 --> 00:17:11.175
But from time to time,

287
00:17:11.225 --> 00:17:14.295
these aristocratic lords would call assemblies

288
00:17:14.475 --> 00:17:16.095
of the general population

289
00:17:17.815 --> 00:17:21.555
and then debate some issue among themselves in front

290
00:17:21.615 --> 00:17:25.275
of an assembly of the local inhabitants

291
00:17:26.815 --> 00:17:28.995
to gauge public opinion.

292
00:17:29.555 --> 00:17:31.795
I mean, one speaker might be booed,

293
00:17:31.795 --> 00:17:33.435
another speaker might be cheered,

294
00:17:34.345 --> 00:17:36.845
and they get a sense of, you know, what, what, what do,

295
00:17:36.845 --> 00:17:39.245
what do the, what does the community think?

296
00:17:40.905 --> 00:17:42.565
And then they decide for themselves.

297
00:17:42.865 --> 00:17:45.485
Uh, you know, they might, go along with public opinion,

298
00:17:45.505 --> 00:17:47.645
or they might ignore it so far as we can tell.

299
00:17:48.665 --> 00:17:51.405
But in other words, the idea of the

300
00:17:52.075 --> 00:17:55.365
inhabitants generally coming together in a public meeting

301
00:17:56.915 --> 00:17:59.415
and expressing an opinion, at least,

302
00:18:00.845 --> 00:18:05.665
is rooted in this early aristocratic system in

303
00:18:05.665 --> 00:18:09.825
which aristocratic leaders tried to one up each other

304
00:18:10.905 --> 00:18:13.805
by getting public opinion behind them visibly.

305
00:18:15.725 --> 00:18:18.585
Um, and you can, I think it's not hard to see

306
00:18:18.605 --> 00:18:19.705
how that could develop.

307
00:18:20.005 --> 00:18:21.425
And, and indeed did develop

308
00:18:22.355 --> 00:18:24.165
into the people in these assemblies saying,

309
00:18:25.355 --> 00:18:26.975
why don't we get to have a say?

310
00:18:28.285 --> 00:18:30.965
I mean, we are expressing our views,

311
00:18:31.185 --> 00:18:32.925
and then these lords are going off

312
00:18:32.925 --> 00:18:37.715
and deciding what they want, often without, you know,

313
00:18:38.055 --> 00:18:40.875
paying attention really to what we want.

314
00:18:42.105 --> 00:18:43.565
Uh, there are different ways in which,

315
00:18:43.905 --> 00:18:45.085
votes could be held.

316
00:18:46.285 --> 00:18:47.585
Not all of these goodies,

317
00:18:47.695 --> 00:18:50.985
city states could be called democracies by any means,

318
00:18:50.985 --> 00:18:53.185
that democracy is of course, a Greek word

319
00:18:53.855 --> 00:18:55.625
that comes from classical Athens.

320
00:18:56.515 --> 00:18:59.215
It combines the Greek word d os meaning the people,

321
00:19:00.165 --> 00:19:02.345
and prate meaning the govern or rule.

322
00:19:02.965 --> 00:19:05.145
And so democracy literally means power

323
00:19:05.145 --> 00:19:06.225
in the hands of the people.

324
00:19:07.825 --> 00:19:08.885
And another Greek term

325
00:19:09.425 --> 00:19:14.115
that's often used in political theory is oligarchy,

326
00:19:14.165 --> 00:19:17.635
which comes from the Greek word oligo, meaning the few,

327
00:19:18.615 --> 00:19:20.665
some elite group of some sort,

328
00:19:21.425 --> 00:19:24.485
and meaning, again, to, to rule.

329
00:19:25.185 --> 00:19:27.285
So oligarchy is ruled by the few.

330
00:19:28.725 --> 00:19:30.505
The thing is that in the Greek system,

331
00:19:30.505 --> 00:19:34.865
whether the city state develops in a more restricted way

332
00:19:36.065 --> 00:19:38.765
as some kind of rule by the few system,

333
00:19:39.725 --> 00:19:43.185
or in a more open way with rule by the majority,

334
00:19:44.745 --> 00:19:46.645
in either case, the few

335
00:19:46.745 --> 00:19:49.645
or the majority were made up of citizen warriors.

336
00:19:51.885 --> 00:19:55.345
And whether the assembly of citizen warriors

337
00:19:56.295 --> 00:19:58.875
is only of two or 3000,

338
00:20:00.225 --> 00:20:02.325
or is of, you know, 10

339
00:20:02.325 --> 00:20:05.785
or 12,000,

340
00:20:06.275 --> 00:20:08.985
which is basically the difference between oligarchy

341
00:20:09.005 --> 00:20:11.025
and democracy in the Greek system.

342
00:20:12.345 --> 00:20:15.685
Uh, in either case, it is the citizen warriors who get

343
00:20:15.705 --> 00:20:18.565
to decide, and they decide,

344
00:20:19.225 --> 00:20:21.445
by voting in a variety of ways.

345
00:20:21.945 --> 00:20:26.665
In classical Sparta, the vote was by acclimation.

346
00:20:26.665 --> 00:20:27.665
That is to say,

347
00:20:28.615 --> 00:20:31.475
the magistrate presiding over the assembly would say,

348
00:20:31.655 --> 00:20:36.235
all those in favor shall, you know, Greek equivalent of yes.

349
00:20:37.375 --> 00:20:40.515
And all those opposed shall the Greek equivalent of no.

350
00:20:41.735 --> 00:20:45.435
And then, say, okay, you know, the yeses were louder.

351
00:20:45.505 --> 00:20:47.965
They have it, or the other way around,

352
00:20:48.105 --> 00:20:50.925
as the case might be in some cases.

353
00:20:51.825 --> 00:20:55.965
Uh, the historian lucidity tells us of a very important,

354
00:20:56.285 --> 00:20:59.225
decision where the presiding magistrate wanted

355
00:20:59.225 --> 00:21:02.975
to make it absolutely clear where the majority was.

356
00:21:03.675 --> 00:21:07.655
So he had, the citizen body actually divide one group,

357
00:21:07.715 --> 00:21:09.495
go and stand over here, the other group go.

358
00:21:09.715 --> 00:21:12.535
And then you could see there are more people saying

359
00:21:12.675 --> 00:21:13.895
yes than saying no.

360
00:21:15.145 --> 00:21:18.085
Uh, in classical Athens, which is kind of the opposite end

361
00:21:18.085 --> 00:21:21.825
of the political spectrum of classical Greece,

362
00:21:21.885 --> 00:21:23.865
the vote was either by a show of hands

363
00:21:25.725 --> 00:21:29.625
or, you could drop pebbles, into,

364
00:21:30.005 --> 00:21:31.145
a big urn.

365
00:21:32.245 --> 00:21:35.185
Uh, and you could either have two urns, one urn for yes,

366
00:21:35.185 --> 00:21:38.185
and one for no, or sometimes they would get dark

367
00:21:38.185 --> 00:21:39.545
pebbles and light pebbles.

368
00:21:40.165 --> 00:21:42.275
And the light pebbles would mean yes,

369
00:21:42.335 --> 00:21:44.235
and the dark pebbles would mean no.

370
00:21:46.215 --> 00:21:49.235
Uh, and that, that's the origin of the term pebble.

371
00:21:49.235 --> 00:21:52.435
In my title, the pebble stands for the votes.

372
00:21:52.655 --> 00:21:55.155
The Greek word for pebble is phos.

373
00:21:56.015 --> 00:21:57.515
And even today,

374
00:21:57.705 --> 00:22:01.035
experts in voting behavior are called ologists.

375
00:22:01.455 --> 00:22:03.835
It stands for the importance of literacy.

376
00:22:05.565 --> 00:22:09.065
Um, once you have, a, a system like this

377
00:22:09.135 --> 00:22:12.905
that is based on, a large group of

378
00:22:13.655 --> 00:22:17.935
roughly equal men, several thousand of them,

379
00:22:18.805 --> 00:22:23.505
in a place like Sparta that was pretty oligarchic,

380
00:22:23.855 --> 00:22:26.385
tens of thousands of them in a place like Athens

381
00:22:26.385 --> 00:22:27.865
that was much more democratic.

382
00:22:30.035 --> 00:22:33.215
Um, in order for these men to,

383
00:22:33.285 --> 00:22:37.745
work effectively within the system, they need to know,

384
00:22:37.765 --> 00:22:40.745
the rules, the laws, how the system works.

385
00:22:42.175 --> 00:22:45.155
Uh, they need to inform themselves on the issues.

386
00:22:45.305 --> 00:22:46.755
What are we voting on today?

387
00:22:47.645 --> 00:22:49.985
Uh, what is this law that we're being asked

388
00:22:50.285 --> 00:22:51.625
to say yes or no to?

389
00:22:53.075 --> 00:22:55.895
Uh, and the question is, how do you get that information,

390
00:22:56.125 --> 00:23:00.095
knowledge of the laws, knowledge of the, of the rules,

391
00:23:00.095 --> 00:23:04.335
of the system, knowledge of the specific proposals

392
00:23:04.395 --> 00:23:08.525
and policies, being put forward to be debated

393
00:23:08.525 --> 00:23:10.605
and voted on at a given assembly?

394
00:23:10.825 --> 00:23:12.285
How do you get that out to people?

395
00:23:13.695 --> 00:23:16.515
Uh, well, the way the Greeks did it was by,

396
00:23:16.625 --> 00:23:19.715
writing these things up and displaying them in public.

397
00:23:20.955 --> 00:23:25.495
Um, from as early as about six 50 BCE, we start to get,

398
00:23:26.245 --> 00:23:30.985
laws and even law codes being inscribed,

399
00:23:31.005 --> 00:23:32.385
on big slabs of stone,

400
00:23:32.485 --> 00:23:36.505
or on the sides, the side walls of temples in public spaces,

401
00:23:36.725 --> 00:23:37.865
and displayed in Greece.

402
00:23:38.955 --> 00:23:43.215
Uh, so that, as some Greek inscriptions

403
00:23:43.215 --> 00:23:47.595
of this type explicitly say, anyone

404
00:23:48.335 --> 00:23:51.995
who wishes may come along and read and see.

405
00:23:53.735 --> 00:23:57.515
Um, and in classical Athens, for example,

406
00:23:57.895 --> 00:24:01.665
in the fifth century, a week

407
00:24:01.665 --> 00:24:05.175
or two in advance of the next assembly meeting,

408
00:24:05.175 --> 00:24:08.055
there was a specific place in the town square

409
00:24:08.155 --> 00:24:12.185
of Athens called the Aara, where big white

410
00:24:12.185 --> 00:24:15.665
and boards were set up with written on them.

411
00:24:16.445 --> 00:24:20.955
Uh, the agenda for the assembly meeting,

412
00:24:21.055 --> 00:24:25.195
if anyone was proposing a new law, the text of the law,

413
00:24:25.935 --> 00:24:29.355
if the State Council had put fo had some proposals

414
00:24:29.355 --> 00:24:33.715
to put forward, that would be, written out the, the form

415
00:24:33.735 --> 00:24:35.835
of decision that the council had taken

416
00:24:35.895 --> 00:24:39.655
and what it was proposing, for the people to debate

417
00:24:39.675 --> 00:24:41.525
and vote on,

418
00:24:41.625 --> 00:24:44.565
and other kinds of public information,

419
00:24:44.565 --> 00:24:47.325
that citizens needed to know, were set up in this way.

420
00:24:47.545 --> 00:24:49.005
Of course, for people

421
00:24:49.025 --> 00:24:51.045
to access this written information means

422
00:24:51.045 --> 00:24:52.125
they have to be able to read.

423
00:24:54.075 --> 00:24:57.815
Um, now, that borrowing of the

424
00:24:58.455 --> 00:25:02.475
Phoenician writing system that I mentioned earlier,

425
00:25:02.775 --> 00:25:05.815
the Phoenician proto Alphabet,

426
00:25:06.195 --> 00:25:09.605
had a little over 20 letters,

427
00:25:09.755 --> 00:25:11.485
with the addition of vowel sounds.

428
00:25:11.905 --> 00:25:15.285
The Greeks produced an alphabet that,

429
00:25:15.305 --> 00:25:17.085
it varied a bit from place to place.

430
00:25:17.385 --> 00:25:20.465
Uh, different communities, you know,

431
00:25:20.815 --> 00:25:22.665
created their own particular version.

432
00:25:23.645 --> 00:25:25.865
Uh, but there would be between about 24

433
00:25:25.965 --> 00:25:27.905
and 28 to 30 letters.

434
00:25:29.945 --> 00:25:32.105
Ultimately, the Greeks all settled on one version

435
00:25:32.335 --> 00:25:33.425
with 24 letters.

436
00:25:35.035 --> 00:25:37.335
Uh, but, you know,

437
00:25:38.005 --> 00:25:40.665
20 something letters is not hard

438
00:25:40.745 --> 00:25:42.225
to memorize, as we all know.

439
00:25:43.985 --> 00:25:46.365
And once you've memorized the letters, you have

440
00:25:46.365 --> 00:25:50.995
to figure out how to, you know, voice them consecutively

441
00:25:51.055 --> 00:25:54.755
as you see them in a string written up,

442
00:25:54.815 --> 00:25:56.235
breach typically read out loud.

443
00:25:56.295 --> 00:25:58.795
It is to say, you are literally voicing what you see,

444
00:26:00.035 --> 00:26:03.295
the first sound followed by an R sound followed

445
00:26:03.395 --> 00:26:05.375
by a look sound ball.

446
00:26:06.195 --> 00:26:10.255
Uh, and so you can actually voice the message

447
00:26:10.765 --> 00:26:14.225
that is written, and as you voice it, you understand it.

448
00:26:14.525 --> 00:26:16.915
By about six 50

449
00:26:17.135 --> 00:26:21.605
or so, we know, from an array of evidence,

450
00:26:21.835 --> 00:26:23.805
that many thousands of people

451
00:26:23.945 --> 00:26:28.425
around the Greek world could read, not just,

452
00:26:28.725 --> 00:26:33.455
an elite, wealthy few who could,

453
00:26:33.835 --> 00:26:35.535
you know, pay for a fancy education,

454
00:26:36.315 --> 00:26:39.975
not just a professional class of scribes,

455
00:26:41.355 --> 00:26:42.495
you know, who learn to read

456
00:26:42.495 --> 00:26:44.965
and write on behalf of the community,

457
00:26:45.795 --> 00:26:47.135
but very ordinary people.

458
00:26:47.235 --> 00:26:51.095
We find graffiti out in the countryside of Greece where

459
00:26:51.815 --> 00:26:54.135
shepherds are writing on rock walls.

460
00:26:54.475 --> 00:26:57.015
You know, so and so, the shepherd was here.

461
00:26:57.125 --> 00:27:01.405
Effectively, we find,

462
00:27:01.885 --> 00:27:03.765
graffiti, indicating

463
00:27:03.765 --> 00:27:05.725
that people met together in some place.

464
00:27:06.425 --> 00:27:10.925
You know, Jim met Bob here, and we had a good time.

465
00:27:12.015 --> 00:27:14.355
Um, people have learned to read

466
00:27:14.415 --> 00:27:17.075
and write well enough that it occur to them to just,

467
00:27:17.815 --> 00:27:22.075
you know, why away A few minutes scratching a record

468
00:27:22.255 --> 00:27:26.895
of their existence on, on rock faces

469
00:27:27.475 --> 00:27:29.915
in, in Southern Egypt,

470
00:27:30.315 --> 00:27:34.395
a place called Abu Bel on the legs of a monumental statue,

471
00:27:35.375 --> 00:27:38.555
of a, an early Pharaoh Ramsey's the second,

472
00:27:38.795 --> 00:27:42.075
I think it is, Greek mercenary soldiers

473
00:27:42.335 --> 00:27:46.975
who were employed by the Egyptians scratched,

474
00:27:47.835 --> 00:27:49.535
record of their presence there.

475
00:27:49.835 --> 00:27:52.955
So and so from Rhodes was here,

476
00:27:54.375 --> 00:27:57.115
in one case, someone even wrote, so

477
00:27:57.115 --> 00:28:01.835
and so from Rhodes from, took service under King Socos.

478
00:28:01.935 --> 00:28:05.875
And early seventh, sixth century Egyptian Pharaoh,

479
00:28:06.925 --> 00:28:11.505
served in his army on the campaign, to Elfant now,

480
00:28:11.505 --> 00:28:14.705
which is in the extreme south of Egypt,

481
00:28:15.825 --> 00:28:19.135
named the leader of the Egyptian army.

482
00:28:19.315 --> 00:28:23.095
He names the leader of the mercenary part of the army.

483
00:28:23.955 --> 00:28:27.055
Uh, he names a couple of his colleague,

484
00:28:27.525 --> 00:28:29.415
mercenary group, mercenary soldiers.

485
00:28:30.275 --> 00:28:33.895
We had like little six line, almost a, a sort

486
00:28:33.895 --> 00:28:36.495
of little history of what he was doing.

487
00:28:37.755 --> 00:28:41.135
Um, and these kinds of graffiti, which we find all

488
00:28:41.135 --> 00:28:46.055
around the Greek world, in huge numbers, indicate

489
00:28:46.165 --> 00:28:50.135
that very ordinary Greeks, are learning to read

490
00:28:50.135 --> 00:28:52.495
and write, and using it in their everyday life.

491
00:28:54.065 --> 00:28:58.005
By the sixth century, late sixth century, we start

492
00:28:58.005 --> 00:29:01.125
to find evidence of schools,

493
00:29:01.265 --> 00:29:05.485
set up in numerous Greek communities where, citizen

494
00:29:05.995 --> 00:29:10.845
boys, can go for three years, typically according to,

495
00:29:11.265 --> 00:29:13.925
one source, Aristotle,

496
00:29:15.385 --> 00:29:17.525
and learn the basics of reading and writing.

497
00:29:18.885 --> 00:29:22.025
Uh, and these schools are mentioned in a variety of sources.

498
00:29:24.035 --> 00:29:26.735
We even have a couple of, attestations

499
00:29:26.755 --> 00:29:29.625
of the archeologically,

500
00:29:30.045 --> 00:29:34.345
and, a couple of archeological texts even tell us,

501
00:29:35.105 --> 00:29:37.685
how much the teachers in these schools earned,

502
00:29:38.415 --> 00:29:39.805
which gives us a sense of

503
00:29:39.865 --> 00:29:44.045
how much a citizen family would have to pay each month

504
00:29:44.105 --> 00:29:46.205
to send one of their sons to school.

505
00:29:47.445 --> 00:29:50.825
Uh, and the salary for a, a teacher at one of these schools

506
00:29:51.835 --> 00:29:55.215
was in the range of, 30 to 50 drafters.

507
00:29:56.075 --> 00:29:59.535
The draft ma is a Greek silver coin,

508
00:29:59.685 --> 00:30:02.855
that is a good day's wage for a skilled craftsman.

509
00:30:04.295 --> 00:30:08.315
Um, and if you had, a school of say, 30 boys,

510
00:30:09.945 --> 00:30:13.325
then you could earn your 30 draft mode for the month

511
00:30:13.505 --> 00:30:15.685
by charging each boy one drafter a month.

512
00:30:17.885 --> 00:30:21.145
And we know enough about the Greek economy to be able

513
00:30:21.145 --> 00:30:24.415
to tell, that,

514
00:30:24.685 --> 00:30:26.495
many Greek citizen families,

515
00:30:26.685 --> 00:30:29.535
well down the socioeconomic ladder, all

516
00:30:29.535 --> 00:30:34.075
but the very poorest had enough disposable wealth typically

517
00:30:34.095 --> 00:30:38.445
to be able to afford that kind of outlay,

518
00:30:38.465 --> 00:30:41.805
for a few years, as I said, typically about three years.

519
00:30:43.265 --> 00:30:44.765
Um, and,

520
00:30:44.785 --> 00:30:48.565
and that meant that, so long

521
00:30:48.565 --> 00:30:51.525
as families were willing to spend some disposable income

522
00:30:52.505 --> 00:30:55.045
on educating their sons, they could do so.

523
00:30:56.025 --> 00:30:58.685
Uh, it was the convenient writing system

524
00:30:59.195 --> 00:31:01.555
that were the schools,

525
00:31:01.665 --> 00:31:04.355
that they had sufficient disposable income.

526
00:31:04.575 --> 00:31:06.315
So the question is, why would they do it?

527
00:31:07.425 --> 00:31:10.435
Because as citizens, they were going to be able to need

528
00:31:10.435 --> 00:31:11.795
to read those notices.

529
00:31:13.235 --> 00:31:17.095
Uh, and in a very competitive society like classical Greece,

530
00:31:17.395 --> 00:31:19.455
you didn't wanna be standing in front of one

531
00:31:19.455 --> 00:31:23.515
of those notices as a citizen needing to be able to read it

532
00:31:23.535 --> 00:31:25.715
and unable to, and having to turn to someone else

533
00:31:25.775 --> 00:31:27.435
and say, I can't read.

534
00:31:27.575 --> 00:31:31.015
Can you read that for me? Ugh, no.

535
00:31:31.015 --> 00:31:33.375
That puts you in a lower position. You don't want that.

536
00:31:33.835 --> 00:31:36.015
Um, in the sixth, fifth

537
00:31:36.195 --> 00:31:40.095
and fourth centuries, teachers were all,

538
00:31:41.165 --> 00:31:44.025
independent operators.

539
00:31:45.185 --> 00:31:48.325
If you were confident that you could teach kids how to read

540
00:31:48.325 --> 00:31:50.405
and write, you could set up a school.

541
00:31:50.775 --> 00:31:54.865
There was some oversight of it, by,

542
00:31:54.965 --> 00:31:57.185
the authorities of the, democratic

543
00:31:57.185 --> 00:31:59.865
or oligarchic governing systems, making sure,

544
00:32:00.375 --> 00:32:04.025
because there was a great concern, in Greek public life,

545
00:32:04.685 --> 00:32:06.785
that people should be getting a fair deal,

546
00:32:06.815 --> 00:32:09.065
that they should get what they paid for and so on.

547
00:32:10.225 --> 00:32:12.805
Um, but there were no free schools that we know of

548
00:32:14.215 --> 00:32:18.795
By the third century, BCE, we do start to hear of,

549
00:32:19.265 --> 00:32:23.665
wealthy citizens setting up endowments,

550
00:32:23.965 --> 00:32:26.985
to produce an annual income to pay teachers

551
00:32:27.945 --> 00:32:30.725
who would then teach, citizen boys,

552
00:32:30.825 --> 00:32:34.855
and in one case that we know of even girls, how to read

553
00:32:34.855 --> 00:32:35.975
and write free of charge.

554
00:32:37.135 --> 00:32:38.435
So that did come along.

555
00:32:38.775 --> 00:32:40.965
Now, the evidence is not

556
00:32:40.975 --> 00:32:44.085
until the late third century did it happen earlier.

557
00:32:44.335 --> 00:32:47.085
Maybe we don't have evidence of it, so we can't say,

558
00:32:47.545 --> 00:32:49.045
but it certainly is a possibility.

559
00:32:50.385 --> 00:32:54.735
Um, but given the nature of the Greek economy,

560
00:32:54.835 --> 00:32:58.375
and I go into that in some detail in, chapter

561
00:32:58.375 --> 00:33:01.455
that I've written on the Greek economy in the book,

562
00:33:02.755 --> 00:33:04.645
most Greek families could afford

563
00:33:04.995 --> 00:33:09.835
what was a relatively small outlay, to send,

564
00:33:09.995 --> 00:33:11.555
a son to school for a few years.

565
00:33:12.245 --> 00:33:13.835
Three years would do it for most people.

566
00:33:14.265 --> 00:33:17.355
Wealthy people sent their kids to school much longer

567
00:33:18.785 --> 00:33:20.155
because they wanted their kids

568
00:33:20.155 --> 00:33:22.355
to have a much more extensive education.

569
00:33:23.205 --> 00:33:26.925
But for the average middling, Greek citizen, three years

570
00:33:26.945 --> 00:33:29.365
of schooling would teach their son how to read

571
00:33:29.365 --> 00:33:33.705
and write to a sufficient degree that he could function as,

572
00:33:34.405 --> 00:33:39.325
a citizen within the framework

573
00:33:39.385 --> 00:33:42.045
of the oligarchic or democratic governing system.

574
00:33:42.625 --> 00:33:44.325
And, and that was the motivation.

575
00:33:45.675 --> 00:33:47.615
Um, and, and that was enough for them.

576
00:33:48.775 --> 00:33:50.795
Now, of course, as it turns out,

577
00:33:51.385 --> 00:33:54.735
being literate has an effect on the human brain.

578
00:33:56.615 --> 00:33:58.315
Uh, it, it,

579
00:33:58.415 --> 00:34:01.075
builds different neural pathways in the brain.

580
00:34:03.155 --> 00:34:07.095
And as a result, people who are literate tend to think

581
00:34:07.775 --> 00:34:10.895
somewhat differently than people who are not literate.

582
00:34:12.385 --> 00:34:14.925
Um, and this is, you know, I, I think one

583
00:34:14.925 --> 00:34:17.325
of my key insights is that when we wonder

584
00:34:18.065 --> 00:34:20.685
why did the Greeks particularly produce all

585
00:34:20.685 --> 00:34:23.485
of this amazing philosophy, drama,

586
00:34:24.565 --> 00:34:29.195
rational historiography, speech writing

587
00:34:29.295 --> 00:34:31.275
and theories of communication

588
00:34:31.275 --> 00:34:32.595
and so on, where's that coming from?

589
00:34:34.275 --> 00:34:36.235
I think it's tied to the fact that

590
00:34:36.235 --> 00:34:39.115
because of their political system, they were literate

591
00:34:39.735 --> 00:34:42.195
and being literate made them think about

592
00:34:42.195 --> 00:34:44.115
things in a different way.

593
00:34:44.925 --> 00:34:47.865
And what we also find is that you might think that putting,

594
00:34:48.645 --> 00:34:52.065
some piece of information down in writing would fix it,

595
00:34:54.185 --> 00:34:57.625
actually, it opens it up, or debate and criticism.

596
00:34:59.075 --> 00:35:02.875
If someone just tells you something, it's, it's really hard

597
00:35:02.875 --> 00:35:04.475
to pick it apart and criticize it.

598
00:35:04.715 --> 00:35:06.275
'cause you have to rely on memory alone

599
00:35:07.585 --> 00:35:08.835
when you see it in writing.

600
00:35:09.575 --> 00:35:11.635
So you might hear a speech by Donald Trump

601
00:35:12.215 --> 00:35:13.315
and think, what was that about?

602
00:35:13.855 --> 00:35:16.315
The next day, you'll see it in, in a, you know,

603
00:35:16.395 --> 00:35:19.675
a newspaper quote it, and then you can pick it apart

604
00:35:19.675 --> 00:35:20.995
and say, what did he mean here?

605
00:35:21.425 --> 00:35:23.315
That doesn't make any sense, right?

606
00:35:24.025 --> 00:35:27.435
Once it's in writing, you can really start to pick it apart

607
00:35:27.495 --> 00:35:29.515
and subject it to rational criticism.

608
00:35:30.535 --> 00:35:33.115
So once the Greeks start writing everything down,

609
00:35:35.015 --> 00:35:38.045
they expose what they're writing down to a process

610
00:35:38.185 --> 00:35:39.485
of rational criticism.

611
00:35:39.545 --> 00:35:42.805
And rational criticism becomes this huge thing

612
00:35:43.345 --> 00:35:47.325
in Greek culture, the, the fundamental importance of

613
00:35:47.915 --> 00:35:51.255
education and information to have

614
00:35:52.055 --> 00:35:56.095
a governing system in which the citizen body

615
00:35:57.005 --> 00:35:58.335
have a real say.

616
00:35:58.965 --> 00:36:00.535
They need to be informed,

617
00:36:02.155 --> 00:36:05.615
and we need to have an agreed on information base.

618
00:36:07.365 --> 00:36:09.785
The Greeks had an agreed on information base

619
00:36:09.965 --> 00:36:12.065
by setting up all these documents

620
00:36:12.245 --> 00:36:14.025
around their urban centers,

621
00:36:15.195 --> 00:36:19.005
where everyone accessed the same information,

622
00:36:19.025 --> 00:36:23.855
and had an agreed on, system of laws

623
00:36:24.715 --> 00:36:26.975
and protocols and so on.

624
00:36:28.355 --> 00:36:32.545
Um, and they developed,

625
00:36:33.605 --> 00:36:38.255
you know, a literate culture, in which there was,

626
00:36:39.075 --> 00:36:42.595
a process of debate,

627
00:36:42.785 --> 00:36:46.755
produce agreed upon concepts of morality

628
00:36:48.775 --> 00:36:50.835
and communication and so on.

629
00:36:53.645 --> 00:36:54.905
If people aren't willing to

630
00:36:56.685 --> 00:37:01.385
buy into a public education system, it seems

631
00:37:01.385 --> 00:37:05.705
to me that the collective governing system that we all,

632
00:37:07.175 --> 00:37:09.305
want and believe in is in danger.

633
00:37:10.565 --> 00:37:14.185
Uh, the other thing is, the relative equality,

634
00:37:15.415 --> 00:37:18.075
these Greek city states function so well,

635
00:37:18.075 --> 00:37:19.915
because the gap between rich

636
00:37:19.915 --> 00:37:23.635
and poor in the Greek economic system was relatively narrow.

637
00:37:24.895 --> 00:37:27.955
Uh, the richest men in classical Athens

638
00:37:28.935 --> 00:37:30.305
were maybe 40

639
00:37:30.405 --> 00:37:34.925
or 50 times richer than the lower middling element.

640
00:37:36.365 --> 00:37:38.875
Uh, and that meant that, you know,

641
00:37:38.875 --> 00:37:41.835
they're still on a reasonably level playing field.

642
00:37:42.065 --> 00:37:45.315
When you have, the gap between rich

643
00:37:45.315 --> 00:37:48.395
and poor growing to a level where, you know,

644
00:37:48.525 --> 00:37:52.275
today someone who's reasonably middle class may own,

645
00:37:52.495 --> 00:37:54.995
may have property of what, half a million or so a house

646
00:37:55.095 --> 00:37:57.635
and, some retirement savings.

647
00:37:59.595 --> 00:38:01.935
And you've got people who have not just tens,

648
00:38:01.935 --> 00:38:03.135
but hundreds of billions.

649
00:38:05.195 --> 00:38:07.135
But that's quite an alarming gap.

650
00:38:08.275 --> 00:38:11.875
How do you maintain, a

651
00:38:12.945 --> 00:38:16.625
collective governing system when

652
00:38:17.485 --> 00:38:21.265
the rich elite are so much richer and

653
00:38:21.265 --> 00:38:23.965
therefore more powerful than anyone else?

654
00:38:24.865 --> 00:38:28.835
Um, we've, we've seen what that can lead to in the past.

655
00:38:29.565 --> 00:38:31.355
Think of the, the French Revolution

656
00:38:31.415 --> 00:38:34.715
or the Russian Revolution. We don't want to see

657
00:38:34.715 --> 00:38:35.765
That, that happen here.

658
00:38:36.165 --> 00:38:39.125
I think we can learn from classical Greece that perhaps

659
00:38:40.085 --> 00:38:42.745
it would be better if the rich were willing

660
00:38:42.765 --> 00:38:44.265
to be slightly less rich

661
00:38:44.885 --> 00:38:47.185
and get back to the community in some ways,

662
00:38:48.685 --> 00:38:51.465
and for the middling element to be a little more committed

663
00:38:51.485 --> 00:38:55.765
to, you know, coming together

664
00:38:55.945 --> 00:39:00.005
and sharing in an agreed upon information base.

665
00:39:01.685 --> 00:39:04.185
Um, which I don't know if that's possible now

666
00:39:04.185 --> 00:39:08.425
with the internet and with the, the nature of,

667
00:39:09.165 --> 00:39:10.585
the economic system that we have.

668
00:39:11.205 --> 00:39:14.195
But I do think it's something worth thinking about,

669
00:39:14.415 --> 00:39:17.355
and I would hope that readers of my book would be prompted

670
00:39:17.495 --> 00:39:18.675
to think about those things.

671
00:39:19.945 --> 00:39:22.885
On the other hand, on the downside, of course, you know

672
00:39:22.955 --> 00:39:26.925
that this, this is a purely masculine system.

673
00:39:27.185 --> 00:39:30.865
It was totally unfair, to women

674
00:39:31.205 --> 00:39:32.305
and to the enslaved.

675
00:39:33.895 --> 00:39:36.555
Uh, and that's also something I think to think about.

Faculti AI can make mistakes

Research

Policy

Analysis