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What is constitutional ideology?

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Constitutional ideologies shape discourse by determining the boundaries of what can be argued within institutions, influencing both the worldview of the state and individual identity, while offering a framework to analyze citizenship, authority, and the underlying ideological rules related to causality, values, and historical claims.

Image courtesy of interviewee. October 15, 2024

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This video is a transcript of an interview with an author discussing their recently published paper on constitutional ideologies, titled "What is Constitutional Ideology?" The author expresses their intention to explore the limitations of viewing constitutional institutions solely through the lens of legal frameworks. They propose that there are significant non-legal constraints that shape decision-making within these institutions, leading to the concept of constitutional ideology as a set of guidelines that govern deliberation and decision-making processes.

The author identifies two main approaches to understanding ideology: one from political theorists who see it as a set of concepts or narratives (like Marxism or liberalism), and another from social psychologists who view it as rule-based practices that dictate how groups deliberate. They argue that these perspectives are complementary, with rules underpinning concepts that provide a worldview.

The discussion also emphasizes the importance of recognizing that ideologies can coexist within social groups, including within states, and that different institutions (like parliaments and courts) can have distinct constitutional ideologies. The author highlights the role of constitutions in facilitating constructive disagreement and accommodating various political ideologies within political structures.

Towards the end, the author reflects on how constitutional ideologies intersect with broader social and historical contexts, influencing collective narratives and identities within a state. They encourage further scholarly exploration of these themes and the potential conflicts that may arise between constitutional ideologies and legal commitments, particularly in relation to equality and social justice issues.

Overall, the paper serves as a toolkit for understanding the interplay between constitutional structures, ideologies, and societal norms, inviting further discussion and critique.

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Here are five key points from the video regarding the concept of constitutional ideology:

1. **Definition of Constitutional Ideology**: The author defines constitutional ideology as a set of rules, both legal and social, that structure how constitutional institutions deliberate and make decisions. This contrasts with the traditional view where constitutional lawyers primarily focus on law as the driving force behind outcomes.

2. **Interplay Between Rules and Concepts**: The video highlights two broad theoretical approaches to ideology: the political theorist perspective, which views ideologies as sets of concepts that can be interpreted, and the social psychologist perspective, which views them as rule-based practices within groups. The author argues that these are complementary, suggesting that rules underpin concepts, informing how we understand ideologies in practice.

3. **Constitutional vs. Political Ideology**: The author differentiates between constitutional ideology – which facilitates constructive disagreement and dialogue within constitutional frameworks – and general political ideologies, which often aim to reach definitive conclusions. Constitutions should allow various ideologies to process dissent rather than exclude it, thereby strengthening the state.

4. **Impact of Constitutional Ideology on National Discourse**: The video discusses how constitutional ideologies shape the frameworks within which citizens and institutions understand key national narratives (such as the legacy of colonialism). This implies that philosophical debates about historical interpretations are tied to constitutional ideologies, influencing contemporary identity and governance.

5. **Variability Across Constitutional Institutions**: The author notes that different constitutional institutions (like courts or parliaments) might allow differing levels of engagement with certain types of arguments (e.g., religious arguments). This variability indicates that the application of constitutional ideology is convideo-dependent, influencing how ideas are debated and received within different institutional settings.

These points encapsulate the central themes of the discussion around constitutional ideologies and their multifaceted implications for law and society.

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Here are some key quotes extracted from the video:

1. **Purpose of the Interview**:
- "Reason for this interview is a paper that I've recently published on constitutional ideologies..."

2. **Main Theme**:
- "Most of the time, constitutional lawyers focus on law... But I found... that was a con, unsatisfying way of looking at constitutional institutions."

3. **Constitutional Ideology Definition**:
- "The idea is that constitutional ideology is that set of rules that structures the way in which institutions deliberate and make decisions, not necessarily legal, but they can be social."

4. **Identifying Ideologies**:
- "There's an awful lot written on how you go about identifying the existence of a social rule... a social rule in operation when breach of that rule triggers criticism in the group."

5. **Complementary Approaches**:
- "I began to realize that these were two sides of the same coin. They're complimentary. So the rules are the things that underpin the concepts."

6. **Multiplicity of Ideologies**:
- "If an ideology is a feature of a social group, then every social group has its own ideology. Yeah. And there could be multiple ideologies that we have to engage and navigate."

7. **Function of Constitutions**:
- "One of the functions of a constitutional ideology is to engage in the constitutional order so that the constitution can process disagreement and not exclude it."

8. **Exclusion of Disagreement**:
- "The richer constitutional ideology becomes the fewer political ideologies that can be advocated through the constitutional structures."

9. **Examples Comparing Nations**:
- "There is a significant difference, I think, between political ideology and constitutional ideology... for example, the way in which say, I know, the United Kingdom and Spain deal with the issue of succession."

10. **Causal Claims in Arguments**:
- "Many religious beliefs contain some quite broad claims about... what can cause things to happen... a religious person might argue... that it's possible to prove something through revelation."

11. **Interplay of Religion and Constitutional Ideology**:
- "...the extent to which you can run that type of argument often depends on the particular constitutional institution you are looking at."

12. **Historical Perspectives**:
- "...this historical debate is a debate about our national story and about the way in which public institutions and citizens should understand that national story."

13. **Constitutional Identity**:
- "Constitutional ideology and state ideology more generally is a way of framing what it means to be a member of those groups."

These quotes capture the essence of the video and highlight the key points discussed regarding constitutional ideologies, their identification, their functions, and the implications they hold for political discourse and society.

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Here are some articles that would be similar or relevant to the themes and discussions found in the video about constitutional ideologies, constitutional law, and the interaction between law and societal norms:

1. **"The Role of Ideology in Constitutional Law"** - This article examines the foundational ideologies that underpin constitutional frameworks around the world and analyzes how these ideologies influence judicial decisions and political discourse.

2. **"Constitutionalism and the Rule of Law: An Ideological Perspective"** - This paper discusses how different ideological perspectives shape the interpretation and application of constitutional principles within different political systems.

3. **"Constitutional Change and Ideological Transformation"** - This article explores the relationship between constitutional amendments and shifts in societal ideologies, showcasing examples from various countries.

4. **"Understanding Constitutional Ideologies: A Comparative Analysis"** - This comparative study investigates how different countries conceptualize and implement constitutional ideologies, and how these ideologies affect governance and legal practices.

5. **"The Intersection of Law and Social Change: The Role of Constitutional Ideology"** - This article looks at how constitutional ideologies adapt in response to social movements and changing public opinions, illustrating the dynamic relationship between written law and societal values.

6. **"Ideologies and the Politics of Constitutional Interpretation"** - This paper studies how political and social ideologies influence judicial interpretation of constitutional videos, with case studies from various jurisdictions.

7. **"Social Norms and Constitutional Frameworks: Bridging Law and Society"** - This research focuses on the interplay between legal frameworks and social norms, arguing for a broader understanding of constitutional ideologies that includes non-legal rules influencing constitutional institutions.

8. **"Pluralism in Constitutional Ideology: Conflicts and Resolutions"** - This article analyzes how multiple ideologies coexist within a constitutional framework and the tensions that arise from these pluralistic views.

9. **"The Function of Constitutions Beyond Law: Ideologies in Action"** - This piece reviews how constitutions serve not only as legal documents but also as expressions of societal ideologies and the implications this has for governance.

10. **"Historical Narratives and Constitutional Identity"** - This article discusses how national historical narratives shape constitutional ideologies and influence citizens' perceptions of their identity and rights within the state.

These articles engage with similar themes of constitutional ideologies, the nature of law, the importance of social norms, and the interplay between ideology and institutional practices, resonating with the ideas present in your video.

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Reason for this interview is a paper

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that I've recently published on constitutional ideologies

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that's in the International Journal

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of Constitutional Law called,

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and I thought this was a very snappy title,

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what is Constitutional ideology?

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So if any of the, viewers want to, to read that,

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it's open access and, Google is your friend,

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so you can, you can access it very easily

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and have a read for three.

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Most of the time, constitutional lawyers focus on law.

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It's, it's sort of in the job title.

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And we, we, we, we, we look at law

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as being a structure which regulates the way in which the,

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the state makes decisions in which constitutional

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institutions make decisions.

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But I found that was a, a increasingly found,

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that was a con, unsatisfying way

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of looking at constitutional institutions.

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So it didn't seem to me that law

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provided a complete explanation of

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how they produced the outcomes that they did.

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There seemed to be some constraints

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that weren't legal constraints,

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but nevertheless seemed very important.

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So that was the starting intuition

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that maybe there are some limitations, some guidelines,

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some structures on constitutional institutions

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that aren't found in law,

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but have perhaps found in other rules, in social rules.

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And that's where I, the idea of ideology comes in.

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The idea is that constitutional ideology is that set

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of rules that structures the way in which,

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institutions deliberate

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and make decisions, not necessarily legal,

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but they can be, social.

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I started to look into, I, the idea of ideology,

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and I quickly discovered that there seemed

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to be two broad groups of approaches to, ideology.

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So on the one hand, you have political theorists

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who treat ideologies as groups of concepts, of sets

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of concepts that they can study and interpret.

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So they'll talk about the ideology of Marxism

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or the ideology of liberalism,

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and that that's a sort of a very, a narrative almost,

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that it's, it's a story that they tell, the, the, the,

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the, the, the, the, the then subject to interpretation.

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On the other hand, there are social psychologists

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who look at related matters.

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And for social psychologists, ideology seems

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to be a rule-based practice.

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So for social psychologists, there are rules

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that structure deliberation In the groups.

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In groups, there are rules

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that exclude certain propositions from consideration.

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There are rules that require the group

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to consider certain propositions.

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And initially, I thought maybe these are two rival ways

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of understanding the ideology, ideology

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as concepts which are interpreted ideology

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as rules, which can be studied.

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But I began to realize

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that these were two sides of the same coin.

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They're complimentary. So the rules are the things

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that underpin the concepts.

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Social groups, including the state,

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including constitutional institutions, have a set of, of,

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of rules that structure how they de they debate.

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But when you look at those rules, you can see that that,

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that that concepts are extrapolated outta those rules.

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They sit on top of the rules.

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Um, and I think looking at ideologies, both in terms

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of rules and concepts is, is quite helpful.

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So first off, in terms of rules,

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that gives us quite a sharp way of identifying

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what those ideologies are.

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So there's an awful lot written on

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how you go about identifying the existence of a social rule.

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There's a social rule in operation when breach of

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that rule triggers criticism in the group.

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And moreover, that criticism is of a certain type.

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It's a criticism for breach of the rule.

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So that the, the social psychology literature gives us a

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really good way in to identifying

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and pinning down those rules.

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But the, political theory literature,

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I think brings out the way in which those rules then

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generate a set of concepts that provide a worldview, a way

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of looking at, reality.

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So think of ideologies then as constructing a lens

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that people then look through to see, to understand

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how the world is, to understand how they think the world,

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ought to be.

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And those concepts can't just be collapsed back into the

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rules because concepts can be used.

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The concepts can be used in situations

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where the rules don't necessarily apply.

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So you can use rules by the concepts, by analogy

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that have broader reach than the, than the specific rules.

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People assume that there's a single

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ideology you have to buy into.

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Everybody's only buys into one ideology.

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But if an ideology is a feature of a social group,

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then every social group has its own ideology.

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Yeah. And there could be multiple ideologies that we have

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to engage and navigate,

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and those inter ideologies can interact.

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So in the context of a state

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and the constitution, the constitution,

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constitutional ideologies for within the state, they're part

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of the state state's ideologies.

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But these are the ideologies that you find in operation,

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in particular, constitutional institutions.

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So we can talk of constitutional ideology as a whole

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as being those, rules

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that structure the deliberation of constitutional actors.

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But we could also talk about the constitutional ideology of

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a particular institution like parliament

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or the courts or the executive.

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And these could all be different.

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Um, state ideology, I think is, is broader seal.

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So state ideology also encompasses the way in which private

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groups interact in the state,

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because one of the tasks of the state is

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to structure the way in which private groups within

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the state, deliberate.

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So the state sets, rules

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that regulate the way in which say people within charities

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discuss and decide on activity or trade unions or companies.

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So the state speaks to the way in which it, its members have

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to deliberate within private groups.

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So state ideology is broader than constitutional

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ideology expands outwards.

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I don't want to pretend the constitutional ideology isn't a

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political ideology in a sense,

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but one of the purposes of a constitution is to, process

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and accommodate disagreement.

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So there are two broad, I think two big views of

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what a constitution is there to do.

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One view of the constitution is it's there

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to end disagreement.

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It's sort of memorializes our conclusions.

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It shuts down, disagreement.

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So those who support those who advocate for human rights,

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for example, would say it's very important

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to have human rights in the Constitution,

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because we want to shut out debate over those rights.

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So that's one thing constitutions do.

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But a second thing constitutions do is they provide

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structures in which people can disagree constructively.

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So constitutions don't say that,

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the disagreement is, is,

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is is being brought to a conclusion.

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Constitutions provide you with mechanisms where you can,

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can, you can fight your corner,

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you can argue your case within the structure.

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And one of the things that, one of the, the, the, the,

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the hazards, I think

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of constitutional ideology is it becomes too rich

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because the richer constitutional ideology becomes

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the fewer political ideologies that can be advocated

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through the constitutional structures.

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So the constitutional ideolog starts to shut things out

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from debating those institutions.

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Now, this might sometimes be a good thing.

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You might say, well, Nick, I don't want us to be able

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to argue over the merits of, water boarding.

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I want us to say that torture is always off the table,

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but there are other issues where it can

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become, can become a problem.

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So, contrast, for example, the way in which say, I know,

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the United Kingdom and Spain deal

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with the issue of succession.

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So in Spain, as I'm sure you're aware,

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there's a huge constitutional problem over the question

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of whether or not in, in, in, in, in Barcelona,

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it's possible to advocate succession within Spanish

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constitutional structures in the United Kingdom.

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In contrast, there's no question.

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But if you are a Welsh nationalist

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or a Scottish nationalist, you can argue for succession in,

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in parliament and in the constitutional structures.

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Now, I suppose the, the strategy that Spain's adopted is

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to say it's a rule of our constitutional ideology

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that you can't challenge the integrity

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of the state as a whole.

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The Constitution seeks to put that out of public debate.

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Um, if that works great because you've taken a controversial

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and difficult political offshoot of the table.

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But if it doesn't work, then you've got a huge problem,

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because now the structures that are meant to be processing

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disagreement are ignoring that disagreement.

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And the only way in which those who, advocate

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that political position can get reach their, their, their,

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their objectives is in conflict

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with the constitutional structures of the state.

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So there is a significant difference, I think,

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between political ideology and constitutional ideology,

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because one of the functions of a constitutional ideology is

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to allow different rival political ideologies

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to engage in the constitutional order so

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that the constitution can process

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disagreement and not exclude it.

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And it, one of the reasons we want constitutions

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to do this is because that often makes the state stronger

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and more effective rather than weaker.

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Both ideologies don't have that aspect where they want

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to allow other groups

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and other ideologies to engage

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through, through their structures.

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So most constitution,

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most other ideologies can just reach a conclusion about it.

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So when I was writing that part of the paper,

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I had two examples in mind.

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Um, the first example is religious ideologies.

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So many religious beliefs contain some quite,

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quite broad claims about, first of all,

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what can cause things to happen.

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So many religious people would say

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that God's intervention on earth can cause things to happen.

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You know, may, may, maybe God causes a hurricane,

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or God saves somebody from,

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from an illness or something like that.

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So religious, some religious people make

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that sort of causal claim.

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Um, they also back it up with a particular way of

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Arguing. The, the,

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the, those causal claims can be proven.

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So rather than the scientific method of proving,

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causality, a religious person might argue, for example,

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that it's possible to, to,

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to prove something through revelation.

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So I just know that God saved my partner for, from,

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from death, because this was revealed to me.

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Yeah. So there's a, a, a difficult causal claim

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of a possibility God did this thing,

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but also a difficult claim about how that can be proven.

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I I just know it now, this way of thinking is,

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is isn't just confined to the religious.

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Think about the way in which during the, the Covid,

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19 crisis, there was certainly a substantial group of people

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who seemed to think that if we just pretended it wasn't

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happening, it would go away.

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Um, and that group of people seem to, seemed, to me anyway,

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seemed to think that, that, that, that, that those

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who are concerned about covid,

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were in a sense causing this problem to happen.

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So this is sort of radical boosters,

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and it's the same with climate.

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Uh, change a suggestion that the, the, the, the, the, the,

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the, that by worrying about a problem,

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you're causing it to happen.

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So those are the two things in mind.

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These, these very difficult sort of causal claims.

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Now, the constitutional ideology then faces a problem.

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One option for the constitutional ideology is to say,

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we don't permit arguments of this type

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to run in our constitutional system.

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And you do get some systems like France

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that exclude religious arguments from,

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the secular realm entirely.

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But remember what we were talking about just a moment ago

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when we talked about succession?

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There's a cost to that because you're shutting people out

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of those constitutional institutions.

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Um, lots of people may, maybe the majority

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of people believe these type of difficult causal claims,

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and they'll find that they're not able then

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to run the arguments they want to run

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with within the constitutional institutions.

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They're shut out, and they can only make those arguments

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outside the public realm.

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That's really difficult. Interestingly,

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I think interestingly, the, the extent

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to which you can run that type

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of argument often depends on the particular constitutional

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institution you are looking at.

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And this might be something interesting to reflect on.

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So in the, legislature, for example,

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you can run often religious arguments.

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You can say, I think, I think ultimately it's God

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that's looking out for us and, and will and will protect us.

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And I think that if we pray, then God will show us favor.

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But imagine if you went into a court

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and tried to run that argument.

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You know, you say, no, no, no, that that plot

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of land wasn't sold to that person.

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And I know because God told me.

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You, you would just get laughed out of,

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court pretty quickly.

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So, again, interesting, the, the, the, the type of,

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constitutional ideology you see in different institutions

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might make different types of causal,

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require different types of causal commitment.

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One constitutional institution might be quite broad

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and allow you to make those sort of,

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inspired boosters type claims.

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Another constitutional institution might be more narrow

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and restrict the type of claim that you can make.

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I saw this paper as a toolkit paper.

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Um, I hope this is a helpful paper that people will make use

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of, because it's a paper that can be taken in many,

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different directions.

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Um, for example, it's a paper

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that allows constitutional scholars

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to start thinking about the importance of history.

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Um, so one of the motivations

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for writing this paper was the big historical debate

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that we have going on in the United Kingdom at the present,

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over the legacies of empire.

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If you read Nigel Bigger on the Virtues of Empire,

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and then you read Carolyn Elkins on the Virtues of Empire,

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you'd think that they were writing

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about two different things.

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So bigger sees, our imperial legacy is largely positive,

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something we should be proud of.

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Elkins sees it as something we

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should be ashamed of and regret.

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What I found interesting was that this debate didn't seem

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to be entirely about history.

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This was a debate about the parameters

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of constitutional ideology.

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Once you start thinking about constitutional ideology,

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you can see that this, this historical debate is a debate

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about our national story

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and about the way in which public institutions

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and citizens should understand that national story in terms

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of, of, of providing a grounding on our present day

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responses internationally and to,

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and way of understanding ourselves.

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So there's the first big thing

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that I hope this paper will do,

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it will encourage constitutional lawyers

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to think about the story states tell about their history,

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about their purpose, about their

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values, about their culture.

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But the second big thing that I hope this paper does or,

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or allows us to start to, to do is

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to think about constitutional identity, about what it means

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to be a, a, a member of, a state.

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Because constitutional, ideology

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and state ideology more generally is a way of framing

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what it means to be a member of those groups.

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It tells you what you ought to believe,

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what you ought not to believe.

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It tells you what's important

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and what's not important in that context.

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So this provides us with an avenue to understand

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what it means to be a state member.

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And interestingly, I think if we go down this, this route,

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we'll discover that this way

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of looking at constitutions shows that sometimes the,

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the constitutional ideology of the state is intention

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with some of its formal legal commitments.

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For example, in the United Kingdom, we have,

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the institution of citizenship, which is at least supposedly

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equally applied to all citizens.

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If you're, every citizen is treated equally,

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but if you look at the constitutional ideology of the state,

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the way in which it deals with, race,

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it deals with empire, then

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that becomes much more problematic.

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It seems to a certain extent

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that the constitutional ideology is undermining

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the legal claim of EEE equal citizenship.

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So yeah, I hope this is a useful paper.

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I hope people build on it.

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I, I'm looking forward to hearing

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people disagree with it too.

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So I, I, I hope it's fun.

Exploring Constitutional Ideologies

00:00:00 - Reason for this interview is a paper that I've recently published on constitutional ideologies that's in the International Journal of Constitutional Law called, and I thought this was a very snappy title, what is Constitutional ideology? So if any of the, viewers want to, to read that, it's open access and, Google is your friend, so you can, you can access it very easily and have a read for three. Most of the time, constitutional lawyers focus on law. It's, it's sort of in the job title. And we, we, we, we, we look at law as being a structure which regulates the way in which the, the state makes decisions in which constitutional

00:00:35 - But I found that was a, a increasingly found, that was a con, unsatisfying way of looking at constitutional institutions. So it didn't seem to me that law provided a complete explanation of how they produced the outcomes that they did. There seemed to be some constraints that weren't legal constraints, but nevertheless seemed very important. So that was the starting intuition that maybe there are some limitations, some guidelines, some structures on constitutional institutions that aren't found in law, but have perhaps found in other rules, in social rules.

00:01:07 - The idea is that constitutional ideology is that set of rules that structures the way in which, institutions deliberate and make decisions, not necessarily legal, but they can be, social. I started to look into, I, the idea of ideology, and I quickly discovered that there seemed to be two broad groups of approaches to, ideology. So on the one hand, you have political theorists who treat ideologies as groups of concepts, of sets of concepts that they can study and interpret.

Complementary Perspectives on Ideology: Concepts and Rules

00:01:38 - or the ideology of liberalism, and that that's a sort of a very, a narrative almost, that it's, it's a story that they tell, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the then subject to interpretation. On the other hand, there are social psychologists who look at related matters. And for social psychologists, ideology seems to be a rule-based practice. So for social psychologists, there are rules that structure deliberation In the groups. In groups, there are rules that exclude certain propositions from consideration. There are rules that require the group to consider certain propositions.

00:02:12 - of understanding the ideology, ideology as concepts which are interpreted ideology as rules, which can be studied. But I began to realize that these were two sides of the same coin. They're complimentary. So the rules are the things that underpin the concepts. Social groups, including the state, including constitutional institutions, have a set of, of, of rules that structure how they de they debate. But when you look at those rules, you can see that that, that that concepts are extrapolated outta those rules.

00:02:41 - and I think looking at ideologies, both in terms of rules and concepts is, is quite helpful. So first off, in terms of rules, that gives us quite a sharp way of identifying what those ideologies are. So there's an awful lot written on how you go about identifying the existence of a social rule. There's a social rule in operation when breach of that rule triggers criticism in the group. And moreover, that criticism is of a certain type. It's a criticism for breach of the rule. So that the, the social psychology literature gives us a

Understanding Ideologies: The Intersection of Rules and Concepts

00:03:13 - and pinning down those rules. But the, political theory literature, I think brings out the way in which those rules then generate a set of concepts that provide a worldview, a way of looking at, reality. So think of ideologies then as constructing a lens that people then look through to see, to understand how the world is, to understand how they think the world, ought to be. And those concepts can't just be collapsed back into the rules because concepts can be used. The concepts can be used in situations where the rules don't necessarily apply.

00:03:45 - that have broader reach than the, than the specific rules. People assume that there's a single ideology you have to buy into. Everybody's only buys into one ideology. But if an ideology is a feature of a social group, then every social group has its own ideology. Yeah. And there could be multiple ideologies that we have to engage and navigate, and those inter ideologies can interact. So in the context of a state and the constitution, the constitution, constitutional ideologies for within the state, they're part of the state state's ideologies.

00:04:17 - in particular, constitutional institutions. So we can talk of constitutional ideology as a whole as being those, rules that structure the deliberation of constitutional actors. But we could also talk about the constitutional ideology of a particular institution like parliament or the courts or the executive. And these could all be different. state ideology, I think is, is broader seal. So state ideology also encompasses the way in which private groups interact in the state, because one of the tasks of the state is

Expanding State Ideology: Balancing Disagreement and Constructive Debate

00:04:49 - the state, deliberate. So the state sets, rules that regulate the way in which say people within charities discuss and decide on activity or trade unions or companies. So the state speaks to the way in which it, its members have to deliberate within private groups. So state ideology is broader than constitutional ideology expands outwards. I don't want to pretend the constitutional ideology isn't a political ideology in a sense, but one of the purposes of a constitution is to, process

00:05:19 - So there are two broad, I think two big views of what a constitution is there to do. One view of the constitution is it's there to end disagreement. It's sort of memorializes our conclusions. It shuts down, disagreement. So those who support those who advocate for human rights, for example, would say it's very important to have human rights in the Constitution, because we want to shut out debate over those rights. So that's one thing constitutions do. But a second thing constitutions do is they provide structures in which people can disagree constructively.

00:05:52 - the disagreement is, is, is is being brought to a conclusion. Constitutions provide you with mechanisms where you can, can, you can fight your corner, you can argue your case within the structure. And one of the things that, one of the, the, the, the, the hazards, I think of constitutional ideology is it becomes too rich because the richer constitutional ideology becomes the fewer political ideologies that can be advocated through the constitutional structures. So the constitutional ideolog starts to shut things out

Constitutional Ideology and the Debate on Secession

00:06:21 - Now, this might sometimes be a good thing. You might say, well, Nick, I don't want us to be able to argue over the merits of, water boarding. I want us to say that torture is always off the table, but there are other issues where it can become, can become a problem. So, contrast, for example, the way in which say, I know, the United Kingdom and Spain deal with the issue of succession. So in Spain, as I'm sure you're aware, there's a huge constitutional problem over the question of whether or not in, in, in, in, in Barcelona, it's possible to advocate succession within Spanish

00:06:54 - In contrast, there's no question. But if you are a Welsh nationalist or a Scottish nationalist, you can argue for succession in, in parliament and in the constitutional structures. Now, I suppose the, the strategy that Spain's adopted is to say it's a rule of our constitutional ideology that you can't challenge the integrity of the state as a whole. The Constitution seeks to put that out of public debate. if that works great because you've taken a controversial

00:07:25 - But if it doesn't work, then you've got a huge problem, because now the structures that are meant to be processing disagreement are ignoring that disagreement. And the only way in which those who, advocate that political position can get reach their, their, their, their objectives is in conflict with the constitutional structures of the state. So there is a significant difference, I think, between political ideology and constitutional ideology, because one of the functions of a constitutional ideology is

Constitutional Ideology and Processing Disagreement

00:07:56 - to engage in the constitutional order so that the constitution can process disagreement and not exclude it. And it, one of the reasons we want constitutions to do this is because that often makes the state stronger and more effective rather than weaker. Both ideologies don't have that aspect where they want to allow other groups and other ideologies to engage through, through their structures. So most constitution, most other ideologies can just reach a conclusion about it. So when I was writing that part of the paper, I had two examples in mind.

00:08:27 - So many religious beliefs contain some quite, quite broad claims about, first of all, what can cause things to happen. So many religious people would say that God's intervention on earth can cause things to happen. You know, may, may, maybe God causes a hurricane, or God saves somebody from, from an illness or something like that. So religious, some religious people make that sort of causal claim. they also back it up with a particular way of

00:08:55 - the, those causal claims can be proven. So rather than the scientific method of proving, causality, a religious person might argue, for example, that it's possible to, to, to prove something through revelation. So I just know that God saved my partner for, from, from death, because this was revealed to me. Yeah. So there's a, a, a difficult causal claim of a possibility God did this thing, but also a difficult claim about how that can be proven. I I just know it now, this way of thinking is,

Constitutional Ideology and Public Discourse During Crises

00:09:28 - Think about the way in which during the, the Covid, 19 crisis, there was certainly a substantial group of people who seemed to think that if we just pretended it wasn't happening, it would go away. and that group of people seem to, seemed, to me anyway, seemed to think that, that, that, that, that those who are concerned about covid, were in a sense causing this problem to happen. So this is sort of radical boosters, and it's the same with climate. change a suggestion that the, the, the, the, the, the, the, that by worrying about a problem,

00:09:58 - So those are the two things in mind. These, these very difficult sort of causal claims. Now, the constitutional ideology then faces a problem. One option for the constitutional ideology is to say, we don't permit arguments of this type to run in our constitutional system. And you do get some systems like France that exclude religious arguments from, the secular realm entirely. But remember what we were talking about just a moment ago when we talked about succession? There's a cost to that because you're shutting people out

00:10:29 - lots of people may, maybe the majority of people believe these type of difficult causal claims, and they'll find that they're not able then to run the arguments they want to run with within the constitutional institutions. They're shut out, and they can only make those arguments outside the public realm. That's really difficult. Interestingly, I think interestingly, the, the extent to which you can run that type of argument often depends on the particular constitutional institution you are looking at. And this might be something interesting to reflect on.

Religious Arguments and Constitutional Ideology

00:10:59 - you can run often religious arguments. You can say, I think, I think ultimately it's God that's looking out for us and, and will and will protect us. And I think that if we pray, then God will show us favor. But imagine if you went into a court and tried to run that argument. You know, you say, no, no, no, that that plot of land wasn't sold to that person. And I know because God told me. You, you would just get laughed out of, court pretty quickly. So, again, interesting, the, the, the, the type of, constitutional ideology you see in different institutions

00:11:31 - require different types of causal commitment. One constitutional institution might be quite broad and allow you to make those sort of, inspired boosters type claims. Another constitutional institution might be more narrow and restrict the type of claim that you can make. I saw this paper as a toolkit paper. I hope this is a helpful paper that people will make use of, because it's a paper that can be taken in many, different directions. for example, it's a paper that allows constitutional scholars to start thinking about the importance of history.

00:12:01 - for writing this paper was the big historical debate that we have going on in the United Kingdom at the present, over the legacies of empire. If you read Nigel Bigger on the Virtues of Empire, and then you read Carolyn Elkins on the Virtues of Empire, you'd think that they were writing about two different things. So bigger sees, our imperial legacy is largely positive, something we should be proud of. Elkins sees it as something we should be ashamed of and regret. What I found interesting was that this debate didn't seem to be entirely about history. This was a debate about the parameters

Exploring Constitutional Ideology and National Identity

00:12:33 - Once you start thinking about constitutional ideology, you can see that this, this historical debate is a debate about our national story and about the way in which public institutions and citizens should understand that national story in terms of, of, of providing a grounding on our present day responses internationally and to, and way of understanding ourselves. So there's the first big thing that I hope this paper will do, it will encourage constitutional lawyers to think about the story states tell about their history, about their purpose, about their

00:13:04 - But the second big thing that I hope this paper does or, or allows us to start to, to do is to think about constitutional identity, about what it means to be a, a, a member of, a state. Because constitutional, ideology and state ideology more generally is a way of framing what it means to be a member of those groups. It tells you what you ought to believe, what you ought not to believe. It tells you what's important and what's not important in that context. So this provides us with an avenue to understand

00:13:36 - And interestingly, I think if we go down this, this route, we'll discover that this way of looking at constitutions shows that sometimes the, the constitutional ideology of the state is intention with some of its formal legal commitments. For example, in the United Kingdom, we have, the institution of citizenship, which is at least supposedly equally applied to all citizens. If you're, every citizen is treated equally, but if you look at the constitutional ideology of the state,

Constitutional Ideology and Equal Citizenship

00:14:25 - it deals with empire, then that becomes much more problematic. It seems to a certain extent that the constitutional ideology is undermining the legal claim of EEE equal citizenship. So yeah, I hope this is a useful paper. I hope people build on it. I, I'm looking forward to hearing people disagree with it too. So I, I, I hope it's fun.

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