Can conducting be taught?

Key Question Being Explored in This Insight:

Luke Dollman discusses how Conducting is a relatively young art, with the concept of a specialist conductor taking hold in the late 19th century.

View the page of: Luke Dollman

Institution: University of Adelaide

Explore more insights in:

Art Arts and Humanities Music

Media Literacy Toolkit

Faculti's Media Literacy Toolkit helps viewers critically engage with academic insights by analyzing the research context, identifying perspectives, and encouraging thoughtful evaluation.

Critical Questions to Consider ▼

What assumptions does the research make?
Are there alternative perspectives not explored?
What are the limitations of the research method?

Bias and Perspective Awareness ▼

This research comes from University of Adelaide . Reflect on how the institution's academic focus and research partnerships may shape the questions being explored.

Luke Dollman discusses how Conducting is a relatively young art, with the concept of a specialist conductor taking hold in the late 19th century.

Image courtesy of interviewee. March 28, 2024

Log-in or Sign-up to Faculti
Currently viewing this subject insight as a guest. You have insight(s) remaining for this month. Login to view 8000+ figures on the platform.

Generating Workspace...

Export as PDF

This video video provides a comprehensive overview of the role and evolution of conducting orchestras, particularly focusing on its necessity, challenges, and pedagogical approaches.

1. **Historical Context**: In the 18th and early 19th centuries, conductors weren't always essential, especially for smaller performances like chamber orchestras. However, as orchestras expanded, the need for a conductor became more pronounced to unify diverse musical opinions and provide visual cues for timing.

2. **The Role of Conductors**: Conductors serve as central figures to guide musicians, helping to synchronize their performances and make rehearsals more efficient. Effective conducting requires a multitude of skills, including instrumental mastery, musical theory knowledge, strong auditory skills, and the ability to communicate effectively with the orchestra.

3. **Skills and Training**: While conducting can be taught, certain innate traits and specific skills are harder to impart. A conductor should ideally be proficient in multiple instruments, understand musical history, and have the capacity to form personal connections with orchestra members.

4. **Training Programs**: Various prestigious conducting programs around the world (e.g., the Sibelius Academy, Juilliard, Peabody) emphasize practical experience with orchestras. Notable pedagogical methods include those of Yma Pela and Ilya Musin, who had differing approaches to conducting education.

5. **Challenges for Conductors**: Conductors face unique training challenges because they depend on orchestras for practice, which entails significant costs. The narrative emphasizes the importance of building personal relationships to achieve effective communication and leadership within an orchestra.

6. **Conclusion**: Great conductors like Simon Rattle exemplify the essential qualities of good communication and strong leadership. Ultimately, respect from musicians can be earned through a combination of leadership skills and solid musical knowledge.

Language:

Export as PDF

X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

00:00.225 --> 00:03.325
In, in the 18th century, in early 19th century,

00:03.335 --> 00:06.925
there was a, the conductor wasn't always,

00:07.425 --> 00:10.245
so necessary depending on the works being performed.

00:10.585 --> 00:13.645
And, you know, you'll still see orchestras performing

00:13.645 --> 00:15.005
without a conductor, particularly chamber

00:15.005 --> 00:16.845
orchestras, these days.

00:16.985 --> 00:18.525
The Australian Chamber Orchestra is a

00:18.525 --> 00:19.565
perfect example of that.

00:20.435 --> 00:22.255
Um, but the bigger the orchestra gets,

00:22.555 --> 00:25.815
the more the conductor becomes a necessity.

00:26.315 --> 00:28.855
And when you get a just a certain group of people,

00:29.055 --> 00:32.615
a certain number of people in the same room making music

00:32.895 --> 00:37.215
together, this sort of central point, this nexus point

00:37.215 --> 00:39.815
of the conductor, becomes even,

00:39.925 --> 00:41.655
yeah, steadily more important.

00:41.865 --> 00:42.935
There are a few different reasons.

00:43.195 --> 00:45.935
Um, the one thing when you've got,

00:46.115 --> 00:47.975
so many musicians in the same room,

00:48.065 --> 00:49.575
let's say you've got a symphony orchestra of

00:49.575 --> 00:53.815
around 70, 75 musicians, that's a whole sort

00:53.815 --> 00:56.855
of diverse range of musical opinions you've got in the room.

00:57.635 --> 01:01.535
And to actually, rehearse a work

01:01.795 --> 01:05.415
and come to a unified opinion would be almost impossible.

01:05.715 --> 01:08.615
Uh, there was an orchestra actually in the Soviet Union in

01:08.615 --> 01:12.055
the early 20th century, which tried to do this

01:12.115 --> 01:15.295
to rehearse big works without using a conductor,

01:15.415 --> 01:17.375
but they needed weeks and weeks of rehearsals,

01:17.795 --> 01:18.815
to get anything done.

01:18.915 --> 01:21.935
And a anybody who's played even in a small chamber music

01:21.935 --> 01:26.695
group, knows that, discussions about,

01:26.755 --> 01:29.895
you know, even the tiniest details can take up

01:29.955 --> 01:31.055
an enormous amount of time.

01:31.595 --> 01:34.535
Uh, so to have one person there standing out the front

01:35.115 --> 01:37.975
who says, okay, this is what we're going to do,

01:38.165 --> 01:41.215
just makes the, the whole thing practical for one reason.

01:42.475 --> 01:46.455
And the other reason, is partly physics,

01:46.485 --> 01:48.135
because the more people you get in the room,

01:48.315 --> 01:50.895
the further people are apart from each other.

01:51.955 --> 01:55.175
Um, so if the person at the back of the orchestra goes with

01:55.175 --> 01:56.415
what they're, what they hear,

01:57.555 --> 02:00.985
their sound will sound late at the front of the orchestra.

02:01.645 --> 02:04.225
Um, so to have a sort of visual cue,

02:04.305 --> 02:06.465
a visual reference point, which everybody can play off

02:07.085 --> 02:08.415
and refer to,

02:08.635 --> 02:10.575
is enormously helpful in getting the

02:10.655 --> 02:11.735
orchestra just to play together.

02:12.145 --> 02:16.215
Conducting as a profession, sort of gradually

02:17.085 --> 02:19.255
came about through the course of the 19th century

02:19.835 --> 02:23.415
and, really became a thing, in the 20th century.

02:23.915 --> 02:26.375
So in the 19th century, we had, leading composers

02:26.395 --> 02:29.095
who were conductors, and it was quite common for them

02:29.095 --> 02:30.895
to get up and conduct their own works.

02:31.755 --> 02:34.575
Uh, people like Louis Bo at the very beginning,

02:34.645 --> 02:38.615
Mendelssohn, Wagner is a very clear example.

02:39.035 --> 02:40.495
Uh, Hector Bes.

02:41.315 --> 02:43.695
Uh, and then towards the end of the century, Gustav Mala,

02:43.755 --> 02:46.535
who of course we today remember, a great composer.

02:47.155 --> 02:48.695
Um, but in his own time,

02:48.715 --> 02:50.375
he was much better known as a conductor.

02:50.875 --> 02:52.455
Um, that was, that was what he did.

02:52.515 --> 02:54.695
He was a, a, a really good example of a,

02:55.015 --> 02:57.015
a full-time professional conductor from that period.

02:57.835 --> 03:00.205
And it, that, that just gradually flowed

03:00.435 --> 03:01.885
through to the 20th century.

03:02.625 --> 03:05.245
And, yeah, in the 20th century, it, it's been,

03:05.305 --> 03:06.565
a pretty normal thing.

03:06.665 --> 03:08.245
And, you know, the growth of the Symphony

03:08.245 --> 03:09.685
Orchestra has gone along with that.

03:09.985 --> 03:13.675
The conductor should have an incredibly broad

03:13.925 --> 03:14.995
range of skills, actually.

03:15.175 --> 03:18.515
Um, and this is, one of the challenges of teaching,

03:18.515 --> 03:23.235
conducting, so ideally a conductor, you know,

03:23.235 --> 03:25.995
in an ideal world, the conductor would be,

03:26.065 --> 03:30.315
have mastered at least one instrument, if not several,

03:30.455 --> 03:32.675
in an ideal world that would actually play all

03:32.855 --> 03:33.715
of the instruments of the

03:33.715 --> 03:34.875
orchestra to know how they all work.

03:34.935 --> 03:37.555
But, that really happens, as you can imagine.

03:38.335 --> 03:41.315
Um, they need to have a good knowledge of,

03:41.505 --> 03:46.435
musical history, of musical theory, be able

03:46.435 --> 03:50.115
to analyze, works, know how they're structured, be able

03:50.115 --> 03:52.195
to see the works from the composer's point of view.

03:53.095 --> 03:54.995
Uh, they need to have very good ears.

03:55.815 --> 03:58.235
Uh, they need to be able to sort of analyze what's going on

03:58.255 --> 03:59.555
as they conduct, hear

04:00.465 --> 04:02.715
what the orchestra is playing very precisely,

04:02.855 --> 04:05.195
and to be able to come up with rehearsal strategies

04:05.735 --> 04:06.955
as the music is going along,

04:07.095 --> 04:08.395
and know what they're going to say

04:08.395 --> 04:09.475
to the orchestra when they stop.

04:10.605 --> 04:14.025
And they should be a very good instinctive musician,

04:14.685 --> 04:16.985
and they should be a very good communicator, you know,

04:16.985 --> 04:19.265
that it's really a human bond that they have to form

04:19.615 --> 04:21.905
with the orchestra for this tour work successfully.

04:22.485 --> 04:24.705
And then you can add to that if they're conducting opera,

04:24.735 --> 04:28.265
that they should know at least, German, Italian

04:28.285 --> 04:31.865
and French fluently, hopefully Russian,

04:32.155 --> 04:33.185
Czech, et cetera.

04:33.525 --> 04:36.145
Um, so there are so many things

04:36.145 --> 04:37.985
that a good conductor should be able to do.

04:38.685 --> 04:42.025
And the truth is, you very rarely,

04:42.335 --> 04:44.545
come across a conductor who can do, you know,

04:44.695 --> 04:46.345
even 99% of those things.

04:47.105 --> 04:49.665
I think even even the greats, you know, of our,

04:49.885 --> 04:53.025
of the last a hundred years probably got to 98 or 99%.

04:53.565 --> 04:56.105
Um, they had almost all of the pieces of the puzzle.

04:56.645 --> 04:59.265
And for us, mere mortals, we try

04:59.265 --> 05:00.545
and get as many of the pieces

05:00.605 --> 05:02.705
of the puzzle together as we can.

05:03.635 --> 05:04.855
Um, but yeah, it's a,

05:05.405 --> 05:08.015
it's a huge job actually being a good conductor.

05:08.165 --> 05:12.415
This is something that's been argued about, for as long

05:12.415 --> 05:13.695
as conducting has been taught,

05:13.695 --> 05:16.375
which is probably roughly a hundred years or so now.

05:17.355 --> 05:21.455
Um, and I think the, the very, very short answer is

05:21.455 --> 05:24.895
that yes, you can teach conducting, you can always help

05:25.275 --> 05:29.175
to make a conductor better, and give them experience

05:29.195 --> 05:30.855
and give them tips and give them guidance.

05:31.195 --> 05:34.895
So in this sense, absolutely, yes, you can teach conducting,

05:35.515 --> 05:40.015
but, there are so many things involved in conducting,

05:40.015 --> 05:41.055
as we already discussed.

05:41.515 --> 05:43.255
Um, you can't teach all of those things.

05:43.955 --> 05:45.855
Um, so there are aspects of,

05:45.915 --> 05:48.895
or certain skills that a conductor should have,

05:48.905 --> 05:52.215
which are very difficult to deliver,

05:52.835 --> 05:55.215
in a training system, you know, particularly if it's sort

05:55.215 --> 05:57.685
of a university training system or something like that.

05:58.265 --> 06:01.365
Um, so we can definitely teach conducting, I would say.

06:01.985 --> 06:04.845
Um, we can definitely make people better,

06:04.995 --> 06:06.845
make people a better version of themselves.

06:07.825 --> 06:10.635
Um, but to cover everything

06:10.655 --> 06:13.475
or to teach, to take a, a sort of ordinary musician,

06:13.475 --> 06:16.635
if you like, and turn them into a Bernstein, of course,

06:16.635 --> 06:19.955
that's beyond any teacher or any teaching program.

06:20.495 --> 06:22.955
So there are a number of fantastic conducting programs

06:22.955 --> 06:24.595
around the world these days.

06:25.715 --> 06:27.955
I think the thing that they all have in common is

06:27.955 --> 06:31.675
that they give the conducting students a chance to work

06:31.675 --> 06:33.515
with an orchestra to actually experience

06:33.515 --> 06:35.195
for real what it's like.

06:35.395 --> 06:37.075
'cause this is one of the, the big challenges.

06:37.215 --> 06:39.875
Um, I'm a violinist myself.

06:39.955 --> 06:41.355
I can pr get my violin out

06:42.035 --> 06:43.515
whenever I want, don't do it so much anymore.

06:43.655 --> 06:46.795
But, whenever I want to get my violin violin out, I can,

06:46.915 --> 06:49.275
I know I can practice and that costs nothing.

06:50.255 --> 06:53.515
Um, on the other hand, for a conductor, you need

06:53.515 --> 06:55.195
to have musicians in the room with you.

06:55.775 --> 06:59.115
Um, ideally an orchestra just to practice giving a gesture

06:59.815 --> 07:02.435
and seeing what response comes back.

07:02.695 --> 07:07.155
And orchestras are expensive. Uh, so that's a big challenge.

07:07.215 --> 07:09.675
But the be the best programs have some kind of

07:10.515 --> 07:13.755
orchestral contact, that's realistic,

07:13.895 --> 07:15.075
that's built into them.

07:15.495 --> 07:18.755
Uh, so a very good example is the Sebelius

07:18.755 --> 07:20.155
Academy and Helsinki.

07:20.895 --> 07:24.275
Um, I was fortunate enough to study there myself,

07:24.465 --> 07:27.715
back in 2001 to two 2003, where the Leif Sager Star

07:27.715 --> 07:29.595
and Yma Pela,

07:29.855 --> 07:32.875
and Yma Pela is, one of the sort

07:32.875 --> 07:36.475
of leading pedagogues we can say of the last, yeah, I mean,

07:36.495 --> 07:37.635
in the history of the teaching,

07:37.635 --> 07:41.555
conducting actually in the last a hundred years,

07:42.095 --> 07:44.195
YMA founded that program in the 1970s.

07:44.815 --> 07:45.875
And from the very beginning,

07:45.935 --> 07:48.595
it was about giving the students a chance to conduct

07:49.315 --> 07:50.555
a small chamber orchestra.

07:51.415 --> 07:55.235
And he also, brought in the use

07:55.235 --> 07:58.155
of the video camera even in the late seventies,

07:58.155 --> 08:00.235
when the cameras were these enormous things

08:00.695 --> 08:01.995
and you needed to have special lighting

08:02.095 --> 08:03.275
for them and all the rest of it.

08:03.735 --> 08:08.715
Um, but he insisted this was, really important, way

08:08.735 --> 08:09.835
to teach conducting

08:09.935 --> 08:12.875
and to give the students the opportunity to see themselves

08:13.415 --> 08:17.155
at work and see for themselves what exactly they were doing.

08:17.735 --> 08:20.475
And the added benefit is that it frees up the teacher

08:20.735 --> 08:21.795
to be able to give feedback

08:21.795 --> 08:25.235
after their session with watching the video footage rather

08:25.235 --> 08:27.955
than having to interrupt during a training session.

08:28.615 --> 08:30.715
Uh, so the Bay Academy, it's,

08:30.715 --> 08:34.395
still producing excellent graduates, graduates,

08:34.575 --> 08:38.635
you know, Savannah Malki, Mula Smo,

08:38.655 --> 08:39.675
you know, it could go on and on.

08:40.255 --> 08:44.305
Um, thank Petersburg,

08:44.565 --> 08:46.825
has been historically very, very strong as well.

08:47.365 --> 08:50.225
Uh, there was a very famous teacher there called I Musan,

08:51.125 --> 08:55.485
who taught, I believe it was from 1933

08:55.815 --> 08:58.205
until 1999 when he passed away.

08:58.745 --> 09:02.645
Um, so 66 years, as professor of conducting

09:02.965 --> 09:06.965
and taught many of the Russian names that are famous today,

09:06.965 --> 09:09.045
like Valerie Gev or Dugan Saev.

09:09.625 --> 09:12.325
Um, and they again,

09:12.585 --> 09:14.405
had a professional symphony orchestra in

09:14.405 --> 09:15.845
residence as part of their program.

09:17.025 --> 09:20.245
Um, and it's actually an interesting contrast between,

09:21.375 --> 09:23.555
YMA ELAs method and IA Musen.

09:23.555 --> 09:26.315
Uh, 'cause Yma was quite free, if you like.

09:26.375 --> 09:29.675
He wanted to take the way you worked and the way you moved

09:30.335 --> 09:33.675
and work with that to shape it into something

09:33.675 --> 09:36.195
that just worked better, a better version of yourself,

09:36.295 --> 09:37.915
of whatever you were bringing to the table.

09:38.775 --> 09:42.715
And whereas Ia Mu had had really specific ideas

09:43.365 --> 09:46.555
about exactly how the hands should move,

09:47.755 --> 09:50.735
so very contrasting approach approaches pedagogically.

09:50.875 --> 09:53.935
Um, but both produced absolutely fantastic results.

09:54.715 --> 09:56.255
Um, elsewhere.

09:56.755 --> 09:59.495
Um, Julliard School in New York has,

09:59.605 --> 10:02.775
long had a great program, very well respected,

10:03.125 --> 10:05.735
Peabody in Baltimore, very great program.

10:05.735 --> 10:08.735
Currently Marin Ssop, teaching there.

10:09.795 --> 10:13.175
Um, university of Michigan, Ann Arbor has a,

10:13.175 --> 10:14.575
an excellent reputation too.

10:15.195 --> 10:16.455
Um, in Paris,

10:16.455 --> 10:19.295
there has been a good conducting program in Vienna.

10:19.315 --> 10:21.135
Vienna is definitely worth talking about.

10:21.275 --> 10:26.135
Um, in Vienna in the 1960s, Hans Ky,

10:26.355 --> 10:29.335
was a very fan of famous pedagogue there, taught many

10:29.895 --> 10:32.545
leading conductors, Zubin mate for one.

10:33.395 --> 10:36.725
Um, and Vienna's, an interesting case,

10:36.725 --> 10:39.485
still an excellent conducting program there.

10:40.025 --> 10:41.965
Um, they normally have two classes running

10:41.995 --> 10:43.285
side by side, two teachers.

10:44.355 --> 10:49.255
And, their program is more based on the old sort

10:49.255 --> 10:50.895
of German school, if I can put it that way.

10:51.395 --> 10:55.655
Um, the approach of, every student should play the piano

10:55.875 --> 10:57.015
to some extent at least,

10:57.555 --> 10:59.575
and they play the piano, they play the keyboard

10:59.675 --> 11:03.215
for each other, and that forms the basis of most of the

11:03.815 --> 11:07.055
teaching, but especially these days, they also get to work

11:07.055 --> 11:09.615
with orchestras as well, which is obviously a vital program,

11:09.745 --> 11:10.815
vital part of the program.

11:11.715 --> 11:14.895
And, they're very fortunate in Vienna that they have,

11:15.195 --> 11:19.055
a formidable, range of courses in terms, in terms

11:19.055 --> 11:23.535
of music theory, harmony, listening, oral training,

11:23.795 --> 11:24.855
all the rest of it as well.

11:25.755 --> 11:27.855
Um, so there are lots of good programs around,

11:28.035 --> 11:29.335
here in Australia.

11:30.385 --> 11:34.125
Um, I've spent the last seven years getting a conducting

11:34.125 --> 11:36.285
program going at the University of Adelaide,

11:36.285 --> 11:38.045
which we've done in collaboration

11:38.045 --> 11:41.165
with the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra, as partners

11:41.185 --> 11:43.245
who have been wonderful to work with

11:43.505 --> 11:45.285
and have given the opportunity

11:45.345 --> 11:46.645
to ask students to work with them.

11:47.345 --> 11:49.685
Um, yeah, and this is the key ingredient

11:49.785 --> 11:50.965
in a good conducting program.

11:51.745 --> 11:52.765
The most difficult

11:53.375 --> 11:58.305
Thing, the most difficult aspect, for a teacher

11:58.885 --> 12:02.545
to help develop in a student is this personal relationship,

12:02.545 --> 12:04.785
this human side of conducting the human

12:05.345 --> 12:07.065
relationship with the orchestra.

12:07.405 --> 12:11.425
Um, and you know, when you look at a great conductor, likes,

12:11.555 --> 12:14.905
likes the Simon Rattle, he is such a great communicator.

12:15.005 --> 12:16.985
He has this natural charisma

12:17.045 --> 12:19.945
and sort of ease of working with people.

12:20.445 --> 12:23.495
And, not all of us can do that.

12:23.495 --> 12:25.055
That's not natural for all of us.

12:25.595 --> 12:29.885
Um, but you know, we can all sort of be a version

12:29.905 --> 12:31.765
of ourselves, I think, when we're on the podium

12:31.945 --> 12:33.245
and working with an orchestra

12:33.465 --> 12:36.285
and just learning to communicate with people,

12:36.705 --> 12:37.805
to share ideas.

12:38.425 --> 12:39.925
Um, yeah,

12:40.265 --> 12:44.085
and just good basic leadership qualities, as long as, and,

12:44.085 --> 12:46.325
and, you know, if you have those good basic qualities

12:47.305 --> 12:50.645
and, combined with a good knowledge of the score,

12:51.005 --> 12:53.975
a really good foundational knowledge of the music

12:53.975 --> 12:55.775
that you're performing, then you'll get the

12:55.775 --> 12:56.895
respect of the musicians.

12:57.075 --> 12:59.015
And I think everybody can do that.

The Evolution of Orchestra Conducting Roles

00:00:00 - In, in the 18th century, in early 19th century, there was a, the conductor wasn't always, so necessary depending on the works being performed. And, you know, you'll still see orchestras performing without a conductor, particularly chamber orchestras, these days. The Australian Chamber Orchestra is a perfect example of that. but the bigger the orchestra gets, the more the conductor becomes a necessity. And when you get a just a certain group of people, a certain number of people in the same room making music
00:00:37 - of the conductor, becomes even, yeah, steadily more important. There are a few different reasons. the one thing when you've got, so many musicians in the same room, let's say you've got a symphony orchestra of around 70, 75 musicians, that's a whole sort of diverse range of musical opinions you've got in the room. And to actually, rehearse a work and come to a unified opinion would be almost impossible.
00:01:08 - the early 20th century, which tried to do this to rehearse big works without using a conductor, but they needed weeks and weeks of rehearsals, to get anything done. And a anybody who's played even in a small chamber music group, knows that, discussions about, you know, even the tiniest details can take up an enormous amount of time. so to have one person there standing out the front who says, okay, this is what we're going to do,
00:01:42 - And the other reason, is partly physics, because the more people you get in the room, the further people are apart from each other. so if the person at the back of the orchestra goes with what they're, what they hear, their sound will sound late at the front of the orchestra. so to have a sort of visual cue, a visual reference point, which everybody can play off and refer to,
00:02:10 - orchestra just to play together. Conducting as a profession, sort of gradually came about through the course of the 19th century and, really became a thing, in the 20th century. So in the 19th century, we had, leading composers who were conductors, and it was quite common for them to get up and conduct their own works. people like Louis Bo at the very beginning, Mendelssohn, Wagner is a very clear example.
00:02:41 - and then towards the end of the century, Gustav Mala, who of course we today remember, a great composer. but in his own time, he was much better known as a conductor. that was, that was what he did. He was a, a, a really good example of a, a full-time professional conductor from that period. And it, that, that just gradually flowed through to the 20th century. And, yeah, in the 20th century, it, it's been, a pretty normal thing. And, you know, the growth of the Symphony Orchestra has gone along with that.

The Complex Skills of Conducting

00:03:13 - range of skills, actually. and this is, one of the challenges of teaching, conducting, so ideally a conductor, you know, in an ideal world, the conductor would be, have mastered at least one instrument, if not several, in an ideal world that would actually play all of the instruments of the orchestra to know how they all work. But, that really happens, as you can imagine. they need to have a good knowledge of,
00:03:46 - to analyze, works, know how they're structured, be able to see the works from the composer's point of view. they need to have very good ears. they need to be able to sort of analyze what's going on as they conduct, hear what the orchestra is playing very precisely, and to be able to come up with rehearsal strategies as the music is going along, and know what they're going to say to the orchestra when they stop. And they should be a very good instinctive musician,
00:04:16 - that it's really a human bond that they have to form with the orchestra for this tour work successfully. And then you can add to that if they're conducting opera, that they should know at least, German, Italian and French fluently, hopefully Russian, Czech, et cetera. so there are so many things that a good conductor should be able to do. And the truth is, you very rarely, come across a conductor who can do, you know,
00:04:47 - I think even even the greats, you know, of our, of the last a hundred years probably got to 98 or 99%. they had almost all of the pieces of the puzzle. And for us, mere mortals, we try and get as many of the pieces of the puzzle together as we can. but yeah, it's a, it's a huge job actually being a good conductor. This is something that's been argued about, for as long as conducting has been taught, which is probably roughly a hundred years or so now.
00:05:21 - that yes, you can teach conducting, you can always help to make a conductor better, and give them experience and give them tips and give them guidance. So in this sense, absolutely, yes, you can teach conducting, but, there are so many things involved in conducting, as we already discussed. you can't teach all of those things. so there are aspects of, or certain skills that a conductor should have,
00:05:52 - in a training system, you know, particularly if it's sort of a university training system or something like that. so we can definitely teach conducting, I would say. we can definitely make people better, make people a better version of themselves. but to cover everything or to teach, to take a, a sort of ordinary musician, if you like, and turn them into a Bernstein, of course, that's beyond any teacher or any teaching program.

Challenges in Conducting Education Worldwide

00:06:22 - around the world these days. I think the thing that they all have in common is that they give the conducting students a chance to work with an orchestra to actually experience for real what it's like. 'cause this is one of the, the big challenges. I'm a violinist myself. I can pr get my violin out whenever I want, don't do it so much anymore. But, whenever I want to get my violin violin out, I can, I know I can practice and that costs nothing. on the other hand, for a conductor, you need
00:06:55 - ideally an orchestra just to practice giving a gesture and seeing what response comes back. And orchestras are expensive. so that's a big challenge. But the be the best programs have some kind of orchestral contact, that's realistic, that's built into them. so a very good example is the Sebelius Academy and Helsinki. I was fortunate enough to study there myself,
00:07:27 - and Yma Pela, and Yma Pela is, one of the sort of leading pedagogues we can say of the last, yeah, I mean, in the history of the teaching, conducting actually in the last a hundred years, YMA founded that program in the 1970s. And from the very beginning, it was about giving the students a chance to conduct a small chamber orchestra. And he also, brought in the use
00:07:58 - when the cameras were these enormous things and you needed to have special lighting for them and all the rest of it. but he insisted this was, really important, way to teach conducting and to give the students the opportunity to see themselves at work and see for themselves what exactly they were doing. And the added benefit is that it frees up the teacher to be able to give feedback after their session with watching the video footage rather
00:08:28 - so the Bay Academy, it's, still producing excellent graduates, graduates, you know, Savannah Malki, Mula Smo, you know, it could go on and on. thank Petersburg, has been historically very, very strong as well. there was a very famous teacher there called I Musan, who taught, I believe it was from 1933
00:08:58 - so 66 years, as professor of conducting and taught many of the Russian names that are famous today, like Valerie Gev or Dugan Saev. and they again, had a professional symphony orchestra in residence as part of their program. and it's actually an interesting contrast between, YMA ELAs method and IA Musen. 'cause Yma was quite free, if you like.

Contrasting Pedagogies in Conducting Education

00:09:30 - and work with that to shape it into something that just worked better, a better version of yourself, of whatever you were bringing to the table. And whereas Ia Mu had had really specific ideas about exactly how the hands should move, so very contrasting approach approaches pedagogically. but both produced absolutely fantastic results. elsewhere.
00:09:59 - long had a great program, very well respected, Peabody in Baltimore, very great program. Currently Marin Ssop, teaching there. university of Michigan, Ann Arbor has a, an excellent reputation too. in Paris, there has been a good conducting program in Vienna. Vienna is definitely worth talking about. in Vienna in the 1960s, Hans Ky, was a very fan of famous pedagogue there, taught many
00:10:33 - and Vienna's, an interesting case, still an excellent conducting program there. they normally have two classes running side by side, two teachers. And, their program is more based on the old sort of German school, if I can put it that way. the approach of, every student should play the piano to some extent at least, and they play the piano, they play the keyboard for each other, and that forms the basis of most of the
00:11:07 - with orchestras as well, which is obviously a vital program, vital part of the program. And, they're very fortunate in Vienna that they have, a formidable, range of courses in terms, in terms of music theory, harmony, listening, oral training, all the rest of it as well. so there are lots of good programs around, here in Australia. I've spent the last seven years getting a conducting
00:11:36 - which we've done in collaboration with the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra, as partners who have been wonderful to work with and have given the opportunity to ask students to work with them. yeah, and this is the key ingredient in a good conducting program. The most difficult Thing, the most difficult aspect, for a teacher to help develop in a student is this personal relationship, this human side of conducting the human
00:12:07 - and you know, when you look at a great conductor, likes, likes the Simon Rattle, he is such a great communicator. He has this natural charisma and sort of ease of working with people. And, not all of us can do that. That's not natural for all of us. but you know, we can all sort of be a version of ourselves, I think, when we're on the podium and working with an orchestra and just learning to communicate with people,

Essential Leadership Qualities for Conductors

00:12:57 - yeah, and just good basic leadership qualities, as long as, and, and, you know, if you have those good basic qualities and, combined with a good knowledge of the score, a really good foundational knowledge of the music that you're performing, then you'll get the respect of the musicians. And I think everybody can do that.

Faculti AI can make mistakes

Research

Policy

Analysis

Data

Originals

Explainers

Podcasts

Faculti

New on Faculti

Idea Explorer

Definition

News Context

Critical Questions and Answers

Research Summaries

Can conducting be taught?

Media Literacy Toolkit

Critical Questions to Consider ▼

Bias and Perspective Awareness ▼