Medellín’s Low-Carbon Metrocables

Key Question Being Explored in This Insight:

Julio D. Davila asks Do Medellín’s Metrocables work for the poor?

Institution: University College London

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Julio D. Davila asks Do Medellín’s Metrocables work for the poor?

Image courtesy of interviewee. January 25, 2024

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This video video is a transcription of a speaker discussing the use of cable cars as a form of transportation in urban areas, particularly in Medellín, Colombia. The speaker reflects on their past visit to Medellín and the innovative use of cable cars in steep, impoverished neighborhoods that traditionally struggle with access to reliable transportation.

Key points include:

1. **Origins of Cable Cars**: The speaker was inspired to research the impact of cable cars in Medellín after discovering them during a visit years ago. They viewed this technology, which is simple and widely used as ski lifts, as a transformative solution for urban transport in densely populated, hilly areas.

2. **Research Project**: The speaker organized a research project funded by a UK agency involving a team studying the technology, its implementation in Medellín, and its effects on local poverty.

3. **Benefits to the Poor**: The cable cars have significantly improved access for residents, enabling them to reach jobs, healthcare, and education, thereby reducing poverty and enhancing overall well-being.

4. **Comparison with Other Transport Modes**: The speaker noted the cable cars are a quicker and less destructive alternative to traditional transport systems, as they require minimal urban footprint compared to roads or railways, which often displace existing communities.

5. **Limitations**: Despite their benefits, cable cars have capacity constraints and cannot serve as a sole mass transit solution. They transport fewer passengers than larger systems (about 3,500–4,000 people per hour).

6. **Sustainability Considerations**: The speaker elaborates on the environmental benefits of cable cars, particularly when powered by hydroelectric energy, and how their construction creates less disruption compared to conventional infrastructure.

7. **Challenges**: They acknowledge potential downsides, such as privacy concerns and noise from terminals, but emphasize that these issues are relatively localized compared to the broader social and economic benefits provided by improved transport access.

8. **Conclusion**: The speaker advocates for rethinking urban transport from a community-focused perspective, emphasizing the importance of accessibility and the integrated use of technologies like cable cars to improve quality of life for impoverished urban populations.

Ultimately, the text highlights the positive outcomes of innovative transportation solutions in alleviating poverty and enhancing urban mobility in challenging environments.

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The context for me is a visit I did to Meine many,

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many years ago and came across the cable cars.

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I thought, well, this is a fascinating technology being used

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in a old technology being used in a very different context.

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You normally see them in tourist areas,

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you see them in, ski lifts.

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Uh, but the the cable cars, are

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are very simple technology.

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They're not particularly complex and in me,

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and I saw them used in, low income areas in a poor,

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very highly steep, neighborhoods, very dense.

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Um, which at the time also were very violent.

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'cause Ian, in most people's minds is associated with

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names like Pablo.

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And therefore, a lot of violence, which is linked

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to the, export of, of drugs,

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essentially cocaine at the time.

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Um, and these

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people in these neighborhoods have been there for generations.

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They arrived, in Meline as migrants, as a lot

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of poor people come from, poor areas,

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peasants or small towns,

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and settle in areas in land that they can actually afford

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or land that is cheap or available in some ways,

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but it tend to be unusable for many other people

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or seen as unusable because they're very steep.

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They're subject to landslides when it rains

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and it rains a lot in million 'cause it's a tropical area.

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Uh, and therefore they start building houses in a,

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an unplanned way.

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So I saw these cable cars

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and thought, well, this is fascinating.

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Um, has anybody done any research on this?

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It was just one that had opened at the time.

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As I said, it was about 15 years ago,

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and I thought, I need to do a research about this,

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persuaded my colleagues in mein in the university to,

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to put together research, persuaded the,

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what is now UKRI, the funding agency in,

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social and economic research, to, to fund this,

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which was a two year project.

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And, and that we went, you know, we had a, a team

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of had fabulous team of 25 people doing research,

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both in median and in Bogota.

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Looking at the genesis of the project,

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why did it come about, what technology they used,

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and more importantly, what impact it was having on the poor.

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My interest was, can technology still is, can technology

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around transport, around, water and sanitation?

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The technologies that I deal with, as a planner

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and as eng civil engineer,

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and they help the poor,

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the poor are usually the last ones in the, in the queue,

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in, in cities because there's never money,

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because, you know, local politicians wants

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to favor the, the rich.

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These are the people that are more

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vocal or the middle classes. We are more vocal,

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We're more politically active.

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The poor, unless they're organized, they don't get,

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they only get the crumbles to, to be, to be honest,

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they drew on, on all technology,

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like the cable car technology,

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because it's relatively sim simple to build.

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It's readily available.

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The, it's built largely in Europe by companies in France,

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in Germany, and it's Austria, which is where, you know,

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the topography is right.

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You know, essentially if you think about these cable cars,

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they're essentially linked to the, the designed to link,

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areas which are low, with areas which are high.

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So therefore it's mountainous areas, steep hills,

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sometimes you cannot use them to cross rivers.

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You know, we have one in, across the tames in,

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in London, which is, opened in 2012,

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but, the best at climbing up or climbing down.

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And so they've been used as ski lifts

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for well over a hundred years.

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They've been used to transport, materials,

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and of course people,

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but never really in any serious way to transport people,

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as commuters, except in New York, where,

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where it was used in from 1976, to connect,

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an island, just to Manhattan.

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Uh, but it's not heavily used anyway.

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But, you know, the, somebody saw the opportunity to,

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to use these as a commuting, vehicle,

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excuse the pun, which could be readily built.

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Uh, the French company, the Swiss company,

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the Austrian company, no Swiss, the Austrian company, were

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run out of business in Europe

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because, you know, there's so many

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skill lift you can actually build.

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They were looking for opportunities elsewhere.

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They thought, well, this is great, you know,

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we've got a new market, and actually it's become a

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fantastic market for them.

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So there's a business side to it in the sense

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that these companies have, in a way, revived.

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They've found that they can actually reuse

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that technology in, in urban settings.

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But of course, they're very different to your normal,

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slopes, ski slopes, where, where there's no population,

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it's all very rich, it's all very connected.

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There are no, major social, problems.

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So the technology is, is readily usable.

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Um, it is very fast to build.

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So a mayor, an elected mayor of a city can actually

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launch the idea and build it within two years, you know,

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maybe two and a bit, which, if you think

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of a mayor's administration as being typically three, four,

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perhaps five years, that means they can actually,

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inaugurate it well within the administration or just

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before they, they go if you like.

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So there's also a political dimension.

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Um, the other dimension, which is fascinating, I find, is

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that their footprint literally is very small compared

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to other transport solutions.

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When you build, when you have

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to open up in a very dense, poorly planned neighborhood,

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which has only foot access people by foot or nearby bicycle

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or by motorbike, you know, typically in, in sort of slopes

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that go up and down and very, very, very poorly planned

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or unplanned, normally, you would have to sort

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of build a road that cuts across all that very dense

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poor neighborhood, which is very traumatic for people

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because it means you've got a knockdown houses that,

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and therefore displays people, evict them, take by,

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you know, legally take their houses.

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And that generates a lot of opposition from people,

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because they're losing their, their houses.

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Some, some are losing their livelihoods,

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so that's traumatic.

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Um, and sometimes it doesn't simply work

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because, you know, the slopes can be so steep that,

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you know, you can't get a bus up there.

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You can get a, a pretty good four by four,

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but not a, not a, not a not a bus.

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Um, so the cable,

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and the same goes for a transport on rail

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that's much more expensive.

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The slopes may be too high for rail.

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You need, you know, sort of slopes which are,

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fairly mild for rail to work, you know, this is metro or,

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or, or commuting trains and so on.

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So it's a brilliant, technologically,

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it's a brilliant solution because it means you, you,

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you just buy a few properties

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where you connect when you sort of create the,

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the base, of the, the big structures that carry these,

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these, the pilots that carry the cable cars,

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they're spaced out quite a long distance from each other

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and, and therefore the trauma, the impact, the,

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the degree of, compulsory purchase, and

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therefore the evictions that you have to have on people

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who have been established there for generations or, or,

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or a few years is minimal.

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So that's another brilliant dimension of it, is

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that technologically lend itself to it.

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Um, the downside, Sam,

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if you're gonna ask me about the downside is that they are,

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they don't transport as many people

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as one wishes.

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So the technically they're not mass transit systems

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in the sense that, in, for example,

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in the Colombian context, a mass transit system was

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designed or was perceived

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as being 8,000 passengers per hour in each direction.

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Now, the maximum that a cable car will transport

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for technical reasons, because you have pos, you have

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to be certain distance apart.

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The machinery that you need to move them is such that,

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you know, if you were to do anything bigger,

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it would have to be much, much bigger.

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You know, proportionally, it is about three

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and half thousand per passengers in each direction per hour.

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Now, that's less than half.

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But nonetheless, it's a, it's a sizable number of people.

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The first cable car million,

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transports about 30,000 people a day, which is sizable.

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Not an enormous proportion of the,

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population who live there.

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There's about a hundred thousand up there.

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But, but nonetheless, it's, it's, it's good enough.

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People love it. Uh,

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and we can talk about, you know, sort

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of the people's reactions afterwards.

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So technically taken logically, it's a brilliant solution,

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and that's why it's been taken out now

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in at least eight countries in Latin America from

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that very first one that we studied.

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And, and I could see, I mean, it's actually,

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I could see the potential of this,

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that's why I did this study, which is, you know,

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we produced a book, we produced several articles and so on

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and so forth, because what I wanted was

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for people to understand that these,

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these little toys are actually fantastically powerful

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and very, very useful,

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and actually help reduce poverty, help reduce poverty,

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because they give access to people, to jobs,

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to family, to shopping, save time, give them time

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to sort of devote, you know, at the end of the day,

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to their own family, to their own education, to leisure.

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You know, it just improves wellbeing in many, many ways.

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So you have fantastic poverty reduction, instrument,

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if they're used adequately in the way

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that Meline has used them.

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Um, there are disaster,

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stories like the one in Rio Janero, which was,

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it's been closed down since 2016.

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I read recently that there are plans to reopen it,

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and that's because people didn't, didn't need it.

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It was built, as a, almost like a vanity project by the,

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state governor at the time.

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Um, the state governor, I think was not,

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was the, I think deposed,

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ended up in jail and so on and so forth.

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I don't know whether it had to do with the corruption

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around this particular thing or other pieces

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of infrastructure, but it wasn't

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what people needed or wanted.

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Uh, they perceived this as being essentially for tourists.

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Whereas if you build something that yes,

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you may attract tourists as a,

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particularly the ones in me are doing,

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'cause me is a, is really a very interesting city.

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Um, but it's essentially done for people. And it was a hit.

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It was actually, nobody expected it to be so successful.

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00:11:26.745 --> 00:11:28.385
To be honest, though, commuting,

231
00:11:28.895 --> 00:11:31.905
I've devoted the last 15 years of, of my professional life

232
00:11:31.925 --> 00:11:34.345
to looking at transport, urban transport.

233
00:11:34.345 --> 00:11:37.105
And the reason is, I think urban transport

234
00:11:37.105 --> 00:11:38.585
is absolutely crucial.

235
00:11:39.415 --> 00:11:43.585
Dimension of poverty, which we have even,

236
00:11:44.825 --> 00:11:47.785
engineers have, neglected for a long, long time.

237
00:11:49.795 --> 00:11:53.445
We are, there's a large number of people now, thankfully,

238
00:11:53.445 --> 00:11:57.085
growing very fast, looking at this from a different angle.

239
00:11:57.525 --> 00:12:01.325
Transport engineers, of which I was trained as,

240
00:12:01.335 --> 00:12:04.525
civil engineer with, interest in transport and water

241
00:12:04.545 --> 00:12:06.245
and education and, and sanitation and so on.

242
00:12:06.245 --> 00:12:08.165
That was my original education,

243
00:12:08.585 --> 00:12:10.765
was about moving people fast from one,

244
00:12:10.795 --> 00:12:12.005
from place A to place.

245
00:12:12.085 --> 00:12:14.925
B. It doesn't matter what you used, as long as he was fast

246
00:12:15.465 --> 00:12:18.765
and, and he was, sustainable,

247
00:12:18.905 --> 00:12:23.635
and so on in that, engineers didn't matter,

248
00:12:23.735 --> 00:12:26.315
didn't mind so much if it was long distances

249
00:12:26.315 --> 00:12:28.675
because you could conceivably increase the speed.

250
00:12:29.495 --> 00:12:32.115
Now that neglects completely the issue

251
00:12:32.145 --> 00:12:35.755
that people live in a community, that the communities

252
00:12:35.755 --> 00:12:38.995
that are, there's, there's a certain urban fabric

253
00:12:39.725 --> 00:12:42.115
where you can actually walk to see France.

254
00:12:42.335 --> 00:12:44.795
You can walk to your local grocery shop.

255
00:12:44.935 --> 00:12:46.715
You can actually use a bicycle.

256
00:12:47.505 --> 00:12:50.675
That dimension is not normally seen by engineers.

257
00:12:50.835 --> 00:12:52.475
'cause that's usually taken up

258
00:12:52.535 --> 00:12:54.835
by urban designers and architects.

259
00:12:54.835 --> 00:12:56.755
That scale is the architectural scale,

260
00:12:56.895 --> 00:12:58.675
not the the engineers scale.

261
00:12:59.415 --> 00:13:01.675
Um, if you start putting these things together,

262
00:13:01.745 --> 00:13:05.075
plus the notion that people do live in a community, they do

263
00:13:05.735 --> 00:13:06.915
relate to the neighbors,

264
00:13:07.415 --> 00:13:10.755
or not, as the case may be, they want to be able to walk

265
00:13:10.775 --> 00:13:15.115
to see their mother who's ill, or they want to go

266
00:13:15.115 --> 00:13:16.715
and pick up their kids from the local school

267
00:13:16.735 --> 00:13:18.635
and so on, then it means you.

268
00:13:18.975 --> 00:13:22.075
Not everything is around motorized transport.

269
00:13:22.705 --> 00:13:25.115
Some dimensions are about walking, and

270
00:13:25.115 --> 00:13:26.715
therefore we start to, we have

271
00:13:26.715 --> 00:13:29.275
to start thinking about cities, not in terms of

272
00:13:29.335 --> 00:13:32.395
how fast we can move people in longer distances,

273
00:13:32.415 --> 00:13:36.795
but how, how can we minimize the movement of people in a,

274
00:13:36.855 --> 00:13:39.635
in a, in a much more enclosed space, in a space

275
00:13:39.635 --> 00:13:41.835
that is much more friendly

276
00:13:42.175 --> 00:13:44.395
and less aggressive and less hostile.

277
00:13:45.175 --> 00:13:46.955
And that's, that's a local neighborhood

278
00:13:46.975 --> 00:13:48.075
or even district area.

279
00:13:48.935 --> 00:13:53.445
Um, so poverty, when you're very poor,

280
00:13:57.415 --> 00:14:01.015
a you, you may not have enough money to travel, and

281
00:14:01.015 --> 00:14:02.895
therefore, and certainly not all members

282
00:14:02.895 --> 00:14:04.735
of the household will have, money to travel.

283
00:14:04.875 --> 00:14:09.455
So they not normally households would prioritize the boys

284
00:14:09.515 --> 00:14:13.095
or the men in the household, which means the women don't get

285
00:14:13.095 --> 00:14:15.295
to travel because, you know, the boys get the, the,

286
00:14:15.315 --> 00:14:17.695
in many cultures, that's, that's true around the world.

287
00:14:18.695 --> 00:14:23.175
Secondly, if you do have money to travel, you spending

288
00:14:23.795 --> 00:14:25.655
two hours each way

289
00:14:26.075 --> 00:14:29.255
and in the morning, two hours in the evening looking

290
00:14:29.315 --> 00:14:32.055
for a job or going to work, which could be

291
00:14:32.055 --> 00:14:35.055
as a street hawker, which could be repairing a car,

292
00:14:35.245 --> 00:14:38.935
because the jobs are never very rarely in

293
00:14:38.955 --> 00:14:40.415
the poorer neighborhoods.

294
00:14:41.075 --> 00:14:42.415
You definitely have to commute.

295
00:14:43.475 --> 00:14:45.895
Um, if you're only the man who commutes,

296
00:14:45.895 --> 00:14:48.535
then it means the others are the other members

297
00:14:48.535 --> 00:14:52.005
of the family are deprived of the benefits of traveling,

298
00:14:52.005 --> 00:14:55.125
which could be going to school, going to technicals,

299
00:14:55.125 --> 00:14:57.885
college, going to see, members of family

300
00:14:57.945 --> 00:15:00.525
who live in another parts of the city going to do shopping.

301
00:15:00.665 --> 00:15:01.965
The in the cheapest places.

302
00:15:02.415 --> 00:15:05.565
Local shops are always more expensive for people.

303
00:15:05.785 --> 00:15:07.845
And, and because you, you buy piecemeal.

304
00:15:08.795 --> 00:15:10.655
So there's, there's one dimension.

305
00:15:10.655 --> 00:15:12.095
The other one is about wellbeing.

306
00:15:12.115 --> 00:15:14.375
You know, if you spend two hours commuting in,

307
00:15:14.595 --> 00:15:17.175
and this is not two hours commuting in a lovely

308
00:15:17.795 --> 00:15:21.255
air conditioned train, it's two hours commuting,

309
00:15:21.575 --> 00:15:23.015
changing modes of transport, walking,

310
00:15:23.085 --> 00:15:25.895
then getting a very overcrowded bus in a hot

311
00:15:25.895 --> 00:15:28.495
and sticky environment, then walking again,

312
00:15:28.495 --> 00:15:30.575
then probably getting another bus, and so on and so forth.

313
00:15:30.755 --> 00:15:32.215
And the same at the other end of the,

314
00:15:32.395 --> 00:15:34.335
and then, you know, in some cases, you know,

315
00:15:34.335 --> 00:15:35.935
if you're a woman, you get touched up.

316
00:15:36.155 --> 00:15:37.335
If you're a man, you know, you,

317
00:15:37.335 --> 00:15:39.015
you may lose your wallet in the process

318
00:15:39.195 --> 00:15:40.535
or, you know, be, be tensions.

319
00:15:40.535 --> 00:15:42.455
And so it's not a nice place.

320
00:15:42.475 --> 00:15:45.455
You know, in, in the case of Mexico, for example,

321
00:15:45.825 --> 00:15:50.455
about 30% of a third, well over a third

322
00:15:50.455 --> 00:15:53.255
of people spend up to 30 minutes in each direction.

323
00:15:54.235 --> 00:15:57.775
Two thirds of people spend up to an hour in each direction.

324
00:15:57.795 --> 00:16:01.775
So two thirds of workers in Mexico City spend,

325
00:16:01.795 --> 00:16:02.855
two hours traveling.

326
00:16:03.035 --> 00:16:04.215
And that's a lot of people.

327
00:16:04.595 --> 00:16:07.975
So transport is very much at the center of not only

328
00:16:08.955 --> 00:16:11.485
wellbeing, but also about reducing poverty.

329
00:16:12.115 --> 00:16:13.685
They are, in many ways, firstly

330
00:16:13.685 --> 00:16:15.405
because sustainability, we have

331
00:16:15.405 --> 00:16:18.045
to look at it in the classical definition, which is

332
00:16:18.685 --> 00:16:20.045
economic, social, and environmental.

333
00:16:20.105 --> 00:16:23.165
Not only environmental, economically,

334
00:16:23.265 --> 00:16:27.405
as I said earlier, the, the fact that people have access

335
00:16:27.465 --> 00:16:31.725
to a reliable system provided I'm assuming it is reliable.

336
00:16:31.785 --> 00:16:34.965
And in the case of me, which is the one that I know best is,

337
00:16:35.145 --> 00:16:36.645
is very wonderfully reliable.

338
00:16:36.865 --> 00:16:40.525
It, it runs, I think 11 hours a, a a a day.

339
00:16:41.225 --> 00:16:44.485
It only stops one week, a year

340
00:16:44.745 --> 00:16:47.605
for essential maintenance, in which case, you know,

341
00:16:47.605 --> 00:16:50.405
we heard from people saying, that's the worst week of the,

342
00:16:50.625 --> 00:16:52.165
of a year, because they can't work

343
00:16:52.185 --> 00:16:53.885
and they don't, they can't see families

344
00:16:53.885 --> 00:16:55.445
because they're really isolated.

345
00:16:55.665 --> 00:16:57.165
But you have to have that for maintenance.

346
00:16:57.425 --> 00:17:00.685
So a well maintained system requires that,

347
00:17:01.025 --> 00:17:04.325
so economically, it gives them access to opportunities.

348
00:17:04.715 --> 00:17:06.645
This is what the term that engineers use.

349
00:17:06.645 --> 00:17:09.205
Opportunities mean, transport.

350
00:17:09.505 --> 00:17:11.845
Um, further education

351
00:17:12.025 --> 00:17:16.725
or education as the case may be, jobs,

352
00:17:18.365 --> 00:17:22.705
connection with family health services,

353
00:17:22.755 --> 00:17:24.185
which are not available locally.

354
00:17:24.285 --> 00:17:26.585
And in many of these low income settlements,

355
00:17:26.785 --> 00:17:28.785
informal settlements, health is very poor.

356
00:17:28.845 --> 00:17:30.065
So you have to actually go

357
00:17:30.065 --> 00:17:31.585
and look for, for health services,

358
00:17:31.585 --> 00:17:32.865
which are specialized elsewhere.

359
00:17:33.085 --> 00:17:36.585
So economically, it makes sense for people,

360
00:17:38.805 --> 00:17:41.685
socially, because again, in extension of what I said

361
00:17:41.685 --> 00:17:44.205
before, it allows them to widen their,

362
00:17:44.705 --> 00:17:45.925
the links with other people.

363
00:17:46.065 --> 00:17:48.725
You know, people don't all live members of a family

364
00:17:48.785 --> 00:17:50.650
or friends don't all live in the same neighborhood

365
00:17:50.650 --> 00:17:54.245
because of, you know, factors to do with when they arrive,

366
00:17:54.435 --> 00:17:57.085
what they could afford, you know, where their jobs is,

367
00:17:57.145 --> 00:17:58.245
you know, and so on and so forth.

368
00:17:58.705 --> 00:18:00.925
Uh, so it strengthens

369
00:18:00.925 --> 00:18:02.885
that social network, that social capital.

370
00:18:03.505 --> 00:18:05.885
And environmentally, yes, there are sustainable.

371
00:18:06.385 --> 00:18:09.325
It provided you use, as, in the case of Melin

372
00:18:09.325 --> 00:18:13.165
and much of Latin America, they use,

373
00:18:13.795 --> 00:18:14.885
hydroelectric power.

374
00:18:15.115 --> 00:18:18.115
Hydroelectric power is not, is not perfect.

375
00:18:18.435 --> 00:18:21.675
I mean, it, you know, you, you create these massive dams,

376
00:18:21.675 --> 00:18:23.435
which of course have an impact on

377
00:18:23.435 --> 00:18:24.915
environmental impact, which is local.

378
00:18:25.615 --> 00:18:28.315
But once you've produced them, once you've created them,

379
00:18:28.695 --> 00:18:31.515
you, the emissions are, are very, very small.

380
00:18:32.215 --> 00:18:35.035
Uh, yes, let, they do have an impact locally.

381
00:18:35.215 --> 00:18:38.115
Let me emphasize that. But you know, the emissions in terms

382
00:18:38.135 --> 00:18:42.155
of, global warning, global warming are,

383
00:18:42.645 --> 00:18:45.305
are minimal, in terms of,

384
00:18:45.445 --> 00:18:48.745
of local emissions in the way that a bus

385
00:18:48.925 --> 00:18:51.985
or a car will emit, you know, they're terrible.

386
00:18:52.365 --> 00:18:54.905
And, and even electric cars emit emissions.

387
00:18:54.925 --> 00:18:56.025
You know, they have emissions.

388
00:18:56.025 --> 00:18:57.345
They've, the particulate matter

389
00:18:57.345 --> 00:19:00.825
that comes from the tires robbing against the asphalt,

390
00:19:00.825 --> 00:19:04.225
and that, that produces particles which are tiny, tiny,

391
00:19:04.225 --> 00:19:05.625
tiny, and going to unlock.

392
00:19:05.725 --> 00:19:09.305
So, so cars, even electric vehicles are not sustainable.

393
00:19:09.325 --> 00:19:11.545
And this is a, a big lie that we are being told

394
00:19:11.565 --> 00:19:15.465
by the big car companies and the Teslas and the Elon Musks.

395
00:19:15.965 --> 00:19:19.345
Um, so in that sense, they are much more sustainable.

396
00:19:19.345 --> 00:19:22.985
They also sustainable in the sense that the,

397
00:19:23.165 --> 00:19:26.625
the construction process is,

398
00:19:28.275 --> 00:19:31.685
less, as I was saying at the beginning, less traumatic

399
00:19:31.945 --> 00:19:33.085
and less destructive

400
00:19:33.115 --> 00:19:35.565
because of the footprint of these pilons.

401
00:19:35.565 --> 00:19:38.045
You know, you've got a big massive base.

402
00:19:38.425 --> 00:19:41.765
Yes, which would take probably the, the space with two

403
00:19:41.765 --> 00:19:44.005
or three houses, that's, that's all.

404
00:19:44.265 --> 00:19:46.685
And then another one, you know, a few hundred meters up,

405
00:19:47.385 --> 00:19:48.765
but you're not doing a road

406
00:19:48.825 --> 00:19:51.765
or a rail, which actually means knocking down all

407
00:19:51.765 --> 00:19:52.845
the houses in its wake.

408
00:19:53.505 --> 00:19:55.725
Um, so construction

409
00:19:56.105 --> 00:19:59.165
and destruction, you know, removing houses and,

410
00:19:59.265 --> 00:20:00.445
and pulling down houses

411
00:20:00.585 --> 00:20:04.805
or buildings is, releases a huge amount of carbon.

412
00:20:04.985 --> 00:20:07.645
And we forget that when, you know, we're pulling down a,

413
00:20:07.725 --> 00:20:09.605
a building to build a new one

414
00:20:09.905 --> 00:20:12.005
or building an infrastructure, there's a lot of,

415
00:20:12.145 --> 00:20:13.805
CO2 emitted.

416
00:20:13.805 --> 00:20:16.285
There's a lot of carbon being emitted into the atmosphere.

417
00:20:16.285 --> 00:20:18.085
So we have to think of that too.

418
00:20:18.625 --> 00:20:21.365
Um, and the final dimension is, is noise.

419
00:20:22.265 --> 00:20:25.405
Uh, I had the mistaken impression that,

420
00:20:25.625 --> 00:20:26.725
you know, there was no noise.

421
00:20:26.825 --> 00:20:30.245
And of course, when you flying up in the air,

422
00:20:30.345 --> 00:20:31.685
you don't really hear much noise.

423
00:20:31.685 --> 00:20:33.125
It's actually quite lovely. You all hear,

424
00:20:33.305 --> 00:20:35.165
all you hear when you're up there, you know,

425
00:20:35.165 --> 00:20:38.165
30 meters up in the air, all you hear is the, the sound of,

426
00:20:38.165 --> 00:20:39.725
the breeze and so on and so forth.

427
00:20:40.075 --> 00:20:42.205
Some people find that, you know, a bit terrifying,

428
00:20:42.865 --> 00:20:45.125
but when you get to the, to,

429
00:20:45.185 --> 00:20:48.125
to the ball wheel when bull wheel, when, where, you know,

430
00:20:48.125 --> 00:20:51.805
the, the, the, the, you, the interchange going on or,

431
00:20:51.805 --> 00:20:56.365
or returning, that's very noisy for people living nearby.

432
00:20:56.385 --> 00:20:58.925
And we did have complaints about people saying,

433
00:20:58.925 --> 00:21:01.125
you know, it's, I can't sleep until about, you know,

434
00:21:01.125 --> 00:21:04.365
11 when they switch it off, and then at six

435
00:21:04.385 --> 00:21:06.365
or five in the morning and switch it on again.

436
00:21:06.465 --> 00:21:09.045
So it's not without its problems, but it's minimal

437
00:21:09.145 --> 00:21:10.405
and it's very localized.

438
00:21:11.225 --> 00:21:13.885
The one thing is that it's a remedial technology.

439
00:21:14.075 --> 00:21:15.285
It's a remedial system.

440
00:21:15.475 --> 00:21:17.805
It's not the sort of thing that you would normally

441
00:21:18.355 --> 00:21:20.845
plan a city with to start off with, because,

442
00:21:21.955 --> 00:21:24.325
because it's a bit awkward.

443
00:21:24.665 --> 00:21:28.685
Um, you have to climb up, to, to build it.

444
00:21:28.705 --> 00:21:31.565
Not everybody loves it, you know, there's a small percentage

445
00:21:31.565 --> 00:21:34.325
of people who hate being up there, you know, sort of

446
00:21:34.335 --> 00:21:36.445
above, above houses and so on.

447
00:21:37.465 --> 00:21:40.125
Uh, but also because it's limited in numbers of a number

448
00:21:40.125 --> 00:21:41.285
of passengers that it can take.

449
00:21:41.425 --> 00:21:43.445
So you won't work everywhere.

450
00:21:43.465 --> 00:21:46.955
It will work in topographies, in hills,

451
00:21:46.955 --> 00:21:49.275
which are very steep, where you want to connect things

452
00:21:49.335 --> 00:21:50.915
or cross rivers, as I said.

453
00:21:51.575 --> 00:21:52.675
Um, and

454
00:21:52.745 --> 00:21:55.755
therefore, it's not a, a universal solution for every city.

455
00:21:55.905 --> 00:21:57.715
It's limited in number of passengers it can take.

456
00:21:58.215 --> 00:22:01.595
So it has to be highly focused in places

457
00:22:01.605 --> 00:22:02.955
where there is a concentration

458
00:22:02.955 --> 00:22:04.315
of people and they can use it.

459
00:22:05.015 --> 00:22:07.755
But again, only about 30,000 people,

460
00:22:07.855 --> 00:22:09.515
can use it in a given day.

461
00:22:09.535 --> 00:22:12.275
That's, that's a maximum in that I found in million.

462
00:22:12.915 --> 00:22:15.715
I think there are systems that allow a little more,

463
00:22:15.715 --> 00:22:17.155
but not huge amounts.

464
00:22:17.155 --> 00:22:20.875
More maybe 35, 40,000 max, a day.

465
00:22:21.535 --> 00:22:24.955
So it's a, a small percentage of a very dense urban area.

466
00:22:25.705 --> 00:22:27.805
Um, so it's a remedial system.

467
00:22:28.025 --> 00:22:31.405
It has limitations in terms of the number you can take it,

468
00:22:31.515 --> 00:22:34.885
it's best used in, in topographies, which are steep.

469
00:22:35.345 --> 00:22:37.525
And there's another dimension, which actually

470
00:22:38.785 --> 00:22:41.645
we inquired about when we did our research, which is

471
00:22:41.675 --> 00:22:43.205
that it's the issue of privacy.

472
00:22:44.025 --> 00:22:46.965
You're flying above people's houses, you're peering down

473
00:22:47.105 --> 00:22:49.525
and seeing them sort of taking the washing up, you know,

474
00:22:49.525 --> 00:22:52.565
sort of somebody taking the sun up in their terrace,

475
00:22:52.585 --> 00:22:53.605
you can see them very easily.

476
00:22:53.705 --> 00:22:57.565
You can pee. And so in Europe, it wouldn't easily work.

477
00:22:57.865 --> 00:22:59.245
It has worked in Latin America

478
00:22:59.245 --> 00:23:01.885
because nobody really has thought about these things.

479
00:23:02.045 --> 00:23:06.565
Nobody's suing the company for, for the, for for,

480
00:23:07.825 --> 00:23:10.125
breach of privacy in any way.

481
00:23:10.425 --> 00:23:13.285
And in a, in a more litigious,

482
00:23:14.835 --> 00:23:18.685
more regulated environment like Europe, it's Ada.

483
00:23:18.705 --> 00:23:23.245
And I know that because I was, discussing this

484
00:23:23.245 --> 00:23:26.245
with somebody who had the idea of doing it in, in Amsterdam.

485
00:23:26.625 --> 00:23:28.005
I'm not sure they've done it actually.

486
00:23:28.505 --> 00:23:31.725
Um, and they were very conscious of the issue of privacy.

487
00:23:31.905 --> 00:23:34.885
So they were designing the line in a way which was very

488
00:23:34.885 --> 00:23:36.365
awkward in a way

489
00:23:36.365 --> 00:23:38.445
that you couldn't actually see into people's flats

490
00:23:38.635 --> 00:23:40.605
because they're, it's an area in the north

491
00:23:40.605 --> 00:23:43.165
of Amster near the port, connecting,

492
00:23:43.165 --> 00:23:44.845
with an island, I think,

493
00:23:44.975 --> 00:23:47.085
Where you can actually, if you were to close

494
00:23:47.185 --> 00:23:50.045
to fly too close to, the buildings,

495
00:23:50.045 --> 00:23:52.525
you could actually p see people sort of dressing up,

496
00:23:52.625 --> 00:23:53.725
you know, sort of, or,

497
00:23:53.745 --> 00:23:55.565
or lying in their sofas or whatever it is.

498
00:23:55.625 --> 00:23:58.525
And that would be a very serious, serious issues

499
00:23:58.525 --> 00:23:59.845
of privacy in Latin America.

500
00:23:59.845 --> 00:24:03.165
That issue hasn't a arise, but it may arise in future.

501
00:24:03.545 --> 00:24:06.485
But so far, as far as I know, that nobody's been sued for

502
00:24:06.485 --> 00:24:06.605
that.

Exploring Urban Cable Cars for Poverty Reduction

00:00:00 - The context for me is a visit I did to Meine many, many years ago and came across the cable cars. I thought, well, this is a fascinating technology being used in a old technology being used in a very different context. You normally see them in tourist areas, you see them in, ski lifts. but the the cable cars, are are very simple technology. They're not particularly complex and in me, and I saw them used in, low income areas in a poor,
00:00:37 - which at the time also were very violent. 'cause Ian, in most people's minds is associated with names like Pablo. And therefore, a lot of violence, which is linked to the, export of, of drugs, essentially cocaine at the time. and these people in these neighborhoods have been there for generations. They arrived, in Meline as migrants, as a lot
00:01:10 - peasants or small towns, and settle in areas in land that they can actually afford or land that is cheap or available in some ways, but it tend to be unusable for many other people or seen as unusable because they're very steep. They're subject to landslides when it rains and it rains a lot in million 'cause it's a tropical area. and therefore they start building houses in a,
00:01:37 - So I saw these cable cars and thought, well, this is fascinating. has anybody done any research on this? It was just one that had opened at the time. As I said, it was about 15 years ago, and I thought, I need to do a research about this, persuaded my colleagues in mein in the university to, to put together research, persuaded the, what is now UKRI, the funding agency in, social and economic research, to, to fund this,
00:02:09 - And, and that we went, you know, we had a, a team of had fabulous team of 25 people doing research, both in median and in Bogota. Looking at the genesis of the project, why did it come about, what technology they used, and more importantly, what impact it was having on the poor. My interest was, can technology still is, can technology around transport, around, water and sanitation?
00:02:42 - and as eng civil engineer, and they help the poor, the poor are usually the last ones in the, in the queue, in, in cities because there's never money, because, you know, local politicians wants to favor the, the rich. These are the people that are more vocal or the middle classes. We are more vocal, We're more politically active. The poor, unless they're organized, they don't get, they only get the crumbles to, to be, to be honest, they drew on, on all technology,

Urban Cable Cars: Building Connections Efficiently

00:03:10 - because it's relatively sim simple to build. It's readily available. The, it's built largely in Europe by companies in France, in Germany, and it's Austria, which is where, you know, the topography is right. You know, essentially if you think about these cable cars, they're essentially linked to the, the designed to link, areas which are low, with areas which are high.
00:03:42 - sometimes you cannot use them to cross rivers. You know, we have one in, across the tames in, in London, which is, opened in 2012, but, the best at climbing up or climbing down. And so they've been used as ski lifts for well over a hundred years. They've been used to transport, materials, and of course people, but never really in any serious way to transport people,
00:04:15 - where it was used in from 1976, to connect, an island, just to Manhattan. but it's not heavily used anyway. But, you know, the, somebody saw the opportunity to, to use these as a commuting, vehicle, excuse the pun, which could be readily built. the French company, the Swiss company, the Austrian company, no Swiss, the Austrian company, were
00:04:45 - because, you know, there's so many skill lift you can actually build. They were looking for opportunities elsewhere. They thought, well, this is great, you know, we've got a new market, and actually it's become a fantastic market for them. So there's a business side to it in the sense that these companies have, in a way, revived. They've found that they can actually reuse that technology in, in urban settings. But of course, they're very different to your normal, slopes, ski slopes, where, where there's no population, it's all very rich, it's all very connected. There are no, major social, problems.
00:05:21 - it is very fast to build. So a mayor, an elected mayor of a city can actually launch the idea and build it within two years, you know, maybe two and a bit, which, if you think of a mayor's administration as being typically three, four, perhaps five years, that means they can actually, inaugurate it well within the administration or just before they, they go if you like.
00:05:50 - the other dimension, which is fascinating, I find, is that their footprint literally is very small compared to other transport solutions. When you build, when you have to open up in a very dense, poorly planned neighborhood, which has only foot access people by foot or nearby bicycle or by motorbike, you know, typically in, in sort of slopes that go up and down and very, very, very poorly planned

Impact of Cable Cars on Displaced Communities

00:06:22 - of build a road that cuts across all that very dense poor neighborhood, which is very traumatic for people because it means you've got a knockdown houses that, and therefore displays people, evict them, take by, you know, legally take their houses. And that generates a lot of opposition from people, because they're losing their, their houses. Some, some are losing their livelihoods,
00:06:50 - and sometimes it doesn't simply work because, you know, the slopes can be so steep that, you know, you can't get a bus up there. You can get a, a pretty good four by four, but not a, not a, not a not a bus. so the cable, and the same goes for a transport on rail that's much more expensive. The slopes may be too high for rail. You need, you know, sort of slopes which are, fairly mild for rail to work, you know, this is metro or, or, or commuting trains and so on.
00:07:22 - it's a brilliant solution because it means you, you, you just buy a few properties where you connect when you sort of create the, the base, of the, the big structures that carry these, these, the pilots that carry the cable cars, they're spaced out quite a long distance from each other and, and therefore the trauma, the impact, the, the degree of, compulsory purchase, and
00:07:54 - who have been established there for generations or, or, or a few years is minimal. So that's another brilliant dimension of it, is that technologically lend itself to it. the downside, Sam, if you're gonna ask me about the downside is that they are, they don't transport as many people as one wishes. So the technically they're not mass transit systems
00:08:25 - in the Colombian context, a mass transit system was designed or was perceived as being 8,000 passengers per hour in each direction. Now, the maximum that a cable car will transport for technical reasons, because you have pos, you have to be certain distance apart. The machinery that you need to move them is such that, you know, if you were to do anything bigger, it would have to be much, much bigger. You know, proportionally, it is about three
00:09:00 - Now, that's less than half. But nonetheless, it's a, it's a sizable number of people. The first cable car million, transports about 30,000 people a day, which is sizable. Not an enormous proportion of the, population who live there. There's about a hundred thousand up there. But, but nonetheless, it's, it's, it's good enough. People love it.

Impact of Cable Cars on Urban Poverty

00:09:26 - of the people's reactions afterwards. So technically taken logically, it's a brilliant solution, and that's why it's been taken out now in at least eight countries in Latin America from that very first one that we studied. And, and I could see, I mean, it's actually, I could see the potential of this, that's why I did this study, which is, you know, we produced a book, we produced several articles and so on and so forth, because what I wanted was for people to understand that these, these little toys are actually fantastically powerful
00:09:58 - and actually help reduce poverty, help reduce poverty, because they give access to people, to jobs, to family, to shopping, save time, give them time to sort of devote, you know, at the end of the day, to their own family, to their own education, to leisure. You know, it just improves wellbeing in many, many ways. So you have fantastic poverty reduction, instrument, if they're used adequately in the way that Meline has used them. there are disaster,
00:10:34 - it's been closed down since 2016. I read recently that there are plans to reopen it, and that's because people didn't, didn't need it. It was built, as a, almost like a vanity project by the, state governor at the time. the state governor, I think was not, was the, I think deposed, ended up in jail and so on and so forth. I don't know whether it had to do with the corruption
00:11:02 - of infrastructure, but it wasn't what people needed or wanted. they perceived this as being essentially for tourists. Whereas if you build something that yes, you may attract tourists as a, particularly the ones in me are doing, 'cause me is a, is really a very interesting city. but it's essentially done for people. And it was a hit. It was actually, nobody expected it to be so successful. To be honest, though, commuting, I've devoted the last 15 years of, of my professional life
00:11:34 - And the reason is, I think urban transport is absolutely crucial. Dimension of poverty, which we have even, engineers have, neglected for a long, long time. We are, there's a large number of people now, thankfully, growing very fast, looking at this from a different angle. Transport engineers, of which I was trained as, civil engineer with, interest in transport and water
00:12:06 - That was my original education, was about moving people fast from one, from place A to place. B. It doesn't matter what you used, as long as he was fast and, and he was, sustainable, and so on in that, engineers didn't matter, didn't mind so much if it was long distances because you could conceivably increase the speed. Now that neglects completely the issue that people live in a community, that the communities

Rethinking Urban Transport and Community Interaction

00:12:39 - where you can actually walk to see France. You can walk to your local grocery shop. You can actually use a bicycle. That dimension is not normally seen by engineers. 'cause that's usually taken up by urban designers and architects. That scale is the architectural scale, not the the engineers scale. if you start putting these things together, plus the notion that people do live in a community, they do relate to the neighbors,
00:13:10 - to see their mother who's ill, or they want to go and pick up their kids from the local school and so on, then it means you. Not everything is around motorized transport. Some dimensions are about walking, and therefore we start to, we have to start thinking about cities, not in terms of how fast we can move people in longer distances, but how, how can we minimize the movement of people in a, in a, in a much more enclosed space, in a space
00:13:42 - and less aggressive and less hostile. And that's, that's a local neighborhood or even district area. so poverty, when you're very poor, a you, you may not have enough money to travel, and therefore, and certainly not all members of the household will have, money to travel. So they not normally households would prioritize the boys or the men in the household, which means the women don't get
00:14:15 - in many cultures, that's, that's true around the world. Secondly, if you do have money to travel, you spending two hours each way and in the morning, two hours in the evening looking for a job or going to work, which could be as a street hawker, which could be repairing a car, because the jobs are never very rarely in the poorer neighborhoods. You definitely have to commute.
00:14:45 - then it means the others are the other members of the family are deprived of the benefits of traveling, which could be going to school, going to technicals, college, going to see, members of family who live in another parts of the city going to do shopping. The in the cheapest places. Local shops are always more expensive for people. And, and because you, you buy piecemeal. So there's, there's one dimension. The other one is about wellbeing. You know, if you spend two hours commuting in,
00:15:17 - air conditioned train, it's two hours commuting, changing modes of transport, walking, then getting a very overcrowded bus in a hot and sticky environment, then walking again, then probably getting another bus, and so on and so forth. And the same at the other end of the, and then, you know, in some cases, you know, if you're a woman, you get touched up. If you're a man, you know, you, you may lose your wallet in the process or, you know, be, be tensions. And so it's not a nice place. You know, in, in the case of Mexico, for example,

Impact of Transport on Poverty and Wellbeing

00:15:50 - of people spend up to 30 minutes in each direction. Two thirds of people spend up to an hour in each direction. So two thirds of workers in Mexico City spend, two hours traveling. And that's a lot of people. So transport is very much at the center of not only wellbeing, but also about reducing poverty. They are, in many ways, firstly because sustainability, we have to look at it in the classical definition, which is
00:16:20 - Not only environmental, economically, as I said earlier, the, the fact that people have access to a reliable system provided I'm assuming it is reliable. And in the case of me, which is the one that I know best is, is very wonderfully reliable. It, it runs, I think 11 hours a, a a a day. It only stops one week, a year for essential maintenance, in which case, you know, we heard from people saying, that's the worst week of the,
00:16:52 - and they don't, they can't see families because they're really isolated. But you have to have that for maintenance. So a well maintained system requires that, so economically, it gives them access to opportunities. This is what the term that engineers use. Opportunities mean, transport. further education or education as the case may be, jobs, connection with family health services,
00:17:24 - And in many of these low income settlements, informal settlements, health is very poor. So you have to actually go and look for, for health services, which are specialized elsewhere. So economically, it makes sense for people, socially, because again, in extension of what I said before, it allows them to widen their, the links with other people. You know, people don't all live members of a family or friends don't all live in the same neighborhood because of, you know, factors to do with when they arrive,
00:17:57 - you know, and so on and so forth. so it strengthens that social network, that social capital. And environmentally, yes, there are sustainable. It provided you use, as, in the case of Melin and much of Latin America, they use, hydroelectric power. Hydroelectric power is not, is not perfect. I mean, it, you know, you, you create these massive dams, which of course have an impact on environmental impact, which is local.
00:18:28 - you, the emissions are, are very, very small. yes, let, they do have an impact locally. Let me emphasize that. But you know, the emissions in terms of, global warning, global warming are, are minimal, in terms of, of local emissions in the way that a bus or a car will emit, you know, they're terrible. And, and even electric cars emit emissions. You know, they have emissions.

Evaluating Cable Cars: Sustainability and Limitations

00:18:57 - that comes from the tires robbing against the asphalt, and that, that produces particles which are tiny, tiny, tiny, and going to unlock. So, so cars, even electric vehicles are not sustainable. And this is a, a big lie that we are being told by the big car companies and the Teslas and the Elon Musks. so in that sense, they are much more sustainable. They also sustainable in the sense that the, the construction process is,
00:19:31 - and less destructive because of the footprint of these pilons. You know, you've got a big massive base. Yes, which would take probably the, the space with two or three houses, that's, that's all. And then another one, you know, a few hundred meters up, but you're not doing a road or a rail, which actually means knocking down all the houses in its wake. so construction and destruction, you know, removing houses and,
00:20:00 - or buildings is, releases a huge amount of carbon. And we forget that when, you know, we're pulling down a, a building to build a new one or building an infrastructure, there's a lot of, CO2 emitted. There's a lot of carbon being emitted into the atmosphere. So we have to think of that too. and the final dimension is, is noise. I had the mistaken impression that, you know, there was no noise. And of course, when you flying up in the air,
00:20:31 - It's actually quite lovely. You all hear, all you hear when you're up there, you know, 30 meters up in the air, all you hear is the, the sound of, the breeze and so on and so forth. Some people find that, you know, a bit terrifying, but when you get to the, to, to the ball wheel when bull wheel, when, where, you know, the, the, the, the, you, the interchange going on or, or returning, that's very noisy for people living nearby. And we did have complaints about people saying, you know, it's, I can't sleep until about, you know,
00:21:04 - or five in the morning and switch it on again. So it's not without its problems, but it's minimal and it's very localized. The one thing is that it's a remedial technology. It's a remedial system. It's not the sort of thing that you would normally plan a city with to start off with, because, because it's a bit awkward. you have to climb up, to, to build it. Not everybody loves it, you know, there's a small percentage
00:21:34 - above, above houses and so on. but also because it's limited in numbers of a number of passengers that it can take. So you won't work everywhere. It will work in topographies, in hills, which are very steep, where you want to connect things or cross rivers, as I said. and therefore, it's not a, a universal solution for every city. It's limited in number of passengers it can take. So it has to be highly focused in places

Challenges of Cable Cars: Capacity and Privacy

00:22:02 - of people and they can use it. But again, only about 30,000 people, can use it in a given day. That's, that's a maximum in that I found in million. I think there are systems that allow a little more, but not huge amounts. More maybe 35, 40,000 max, a day. So it's a, a small percentage of a very dense urban area. so it's a remedial system. It has limitations in terms of the number you can take it, it's best used in, in topographies, which are steep.
00:22:38 - we inquired about when we did our research, which is that it's the issue of privacy. You're flying above people's houses, you're peering down and seeing them sort of taking the washing up, you know, sort of somebody taking the sun up in their terrace, you can see them very easily. You can pee. And so in Europe, it wouldn't easily work. It has worked in Latin America because nobody really has thought about these things. Nobody's suing the company for, for the, for for,
00:23:10 - And in a, in a more litigious, more regulated environment like Europe, it's Ada. And I know that because I was, discussing this with somebody who had the idea of doing it in, in Amsterdam. I'm not sure they've done it actually. and they were very conscious of the issue of privacy. So they were designing the line in a way which was very awkward in a way that you couldn't actually see into people's flats
00:24:06 - of Amster near the port, connecting, with an island, I think, Where you can actually, if you were to close to fly too close to, the buildings, you could actually p see people sort of dressing up, you know, sort of, or, or lying in their sofas or whatever it is. And that would be a very serious, serious issues of privacy in Latin America. That issue hasn't a arise, but it may arise in future. But so far, as far as I know, that nobody's been sued for that.

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