Why Is Knowledge of Ignorance Good?

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When aporia leads to recognition of one’s limitations, it can encourage the pursuit of knowledge. Marina McCoy emphasizes the “affective” dimension in this process.

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When aporia leads to recognition of one’s limitations, it can encourage the pursuit of knowledge. Marina McCoy emphasizes the “affective” dimension in this process.

Image courtesy of interviewee. September 13, 2024

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This video discusses the philosophical importance of recognizing one's own ignorance, primarily through the lens of Socratic thought. Socrates, a pivotal figure in Greek philosophy, engaged in dialogues with citizens of Athens to illustrate that they often lacked true knowledge about their beliefs. The speaker highlights three key reasons Socrates emphasized acknowledging ignorance:

1. **Epistemic Concern**: Understanding our lack of knowledge is crucial for the pursuit of truth.
2. **Ethical Concern**: Acting on false knowledge can lead to potentially harmful decisions.
3. **Existential Concern**: Embracing our limitations as human beings involves recognizing that we do not possess complete knowledge.

Socrates often faced anger from those he questioned, as they preferred the comfort of perceived knowledge over confronting their ignorance. The dialogue also touches on the idea that recognizing our limitations can encourage collaborative thinking, as evidenced in various philosophical dialogues, like Plato's *Republic*. It concludes with a reflection on how humility and wonder can foster a more generous and collaborative approach to knowledge, both in philosophical discussions and broader societal issues. This video suggests that an appreciation for the unknown can enhance our engagement with the world and improve discourse, especially in areas like politics and environmental ethics.

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Here are five key points from the video:

1. **Socratic Ignorance**: Socrates emphasized the importance of recognizing one's own ignorance as a foundation for the pursuit of knowledge, highlighting that without acknowledging what we do not know, we may remain complacent and fail to seek the truth.

2. **Concerns of Ignorance**: Socrates identified three key areas of concern related to ignorance: an epistemic concern (the importance of seeking knowledge), an ethical concern (the potential for harmful actions based on misguided beliefs), and an existential concern (understanding what it means to be human in a state of not knowing).

3. **Resistance to Questioning**: The video discusses how Socrates's questioning often made people uncomfortable, causing defensiveness and anger as they preferred to maintain their false sense of knowledge rather than confront their ignorance.

4. **Dialogical Process**: Socrates believed in the value of dialogue as a means of collective inquiry, where understanding is built collaboratively rather than through solitary reflection. This approach encourages humility, recognizing the necessity of others in the pursuit of knowledge.

5. **Value of Puzzlement and Wonder**: Emphasizing that it's acceptable to be in a state of confusion or puzzlement, Socrates advocated for embracing this uncertainty. The video also introduces the concept of wonder, suggesting that being open to knowledge and learning can lead to a deeper appreciation of the world and its complexities.

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Here are some key quotes and ideas extracted from the video regarding the significance of knowledge and ignorance in relation to Socrates and Greek philosophy:

1. **Importance of Questioning**:
- "Socrates was already in the fifth century going around questioning his fellow citizens... to show other people that they didn't know what they thought they knew."

2. **Epistemic Concern**:
- "If we don't know that we already lack knowledge, we may not pursue it at all."

3. **Ethical Concerns**:
- "If I don't know what I think I know about ethical or political matters, then I might act on that lack of knowledge and do something quite damaging to my fellow citizens."

4. **Existential Concern**:
- "What does it mean to be human? To be a human being is to be someone who... doesn't know everything."

5. **Vulnerability to Ignorance**:
- "They preferred to be confident in their sense that, you know, their knowledge is there."

6. **Socrates' Self-Perception**:
- "He doesn't see himself as this great possessor of knowledge... he's always focused on what he doesn't know."

7. **Importance of Puzzlement**:
- "He shows us that it's okay to be in that state of puzzlement... that's fine. That's actually good."

8. **Collaborative Understanding**:
- "If I don't have the answers, I might actually need you to help me think through this."

9. **Intellectual Humility**:
- "If I can learn to understand myself as a limited human being who will never know everything... I can be more generous with you."

10. **Wonder in Philosophy**:
- "All philosophy begins in wonder."

These quotes encapsulate the essence of the video's exploration of Socratic philosophy, emphasizing the value of recognizing our ignorance, the collaborative nature of understanding, and the importance of humility in the pursuit of knowledge.

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This idea is at the very heart of Greek philosophy.

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The Greek philosopher Socrates was already in the fifth

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century going around questioning his fellow citizens.

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He'd go to the gymnasium, he'd go to the agora,

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the marketplace and try to show other people

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that they didn't know what they thought they knew.

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So it's a concern that arises at the very origins

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of Greek thought, I would say.

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Um, and he thought that

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to Novo own ignorance was important for at least three reasons.

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The first is an epistemic concern,

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a concern about knowledge, which is we ought

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to live in the pursuit of the truth

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because, if we don't know that we already

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lack knowledge, so we may not pursue it at all.

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We may think that, you know,

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I already know everything I need to know,

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and I don't need to learn anything more about this topic.

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Um, a second and closely related concern is ethical.

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If I don't know what I think I know about ethical

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or political matters, then I might act on that lack

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of knowledge and do something quite damaging

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to my fellow citizens.

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Um, and then a third reason is

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that it really gets us in touch with us,

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an existential concern, a concern about the very being

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of people, which is what does it mean to be human?

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And the reality is, is that to be a human being is

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to be someone who, doesn't know everything.

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We have models, we have paradigms,

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but we never fully grasp the full truth,

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and we have to somehow learn how to live in that space.

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I think it's interesting that in the dialogue called,

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the apology, Socrates says that he went

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around questioning his citizens

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and they tended to get angry with him.

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They didn't wanna be vulnerable

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to their own state of ignorance.

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They preferred to be confident in their sense that,

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you know, their knowledge is there.

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And they somehow felt that if they have knowledge,

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then they're okay as people or something like that.

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And he says that they deflected that sense

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of defensiveness towards him.

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So he is not living, you know, during a time of Freud

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or projections or any of that kind of language.

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He doesn't use that language, but he seems

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to be talking about something that's a bit akin to that.

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And Socrates remarkably says about himself

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that he actually feels aggrieved and upset.

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We, I think, I've often thought in the past

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before I sort of thinking about this, more about Socrates,

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as you know, a little invulnerable, right?

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He questions people, but then, you know,

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they get mad at him, but he doesn't care.

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But he doesn't say that. He says he actually felt quite

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upset at the fact that they weren't willing to kind

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of undergo this process with him.

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Um, whereas when he, he undergoes it too,

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you know, he is questioned.

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He, the Oracle Adelphi tells a friend of his Caron

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that no one is wiser than Socrates.

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And he says, when he hears that, he says,

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he is totally puzzled.

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He doesn't really understand how that can be true,

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because he doesn't see himself

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as this great possessor of knowledge as this great mind.

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I was a great mind in many ways.

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You know, he seems to ask incredibly good questions,

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but that's not his self-perception.

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He's always focused, focused sula on what he doesn't know.

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And so I think it's helpful that, he shows us

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that it's okay to be in that state of puzzlement, to be,

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he calls it apre state of not being able to move forward.

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And that, that's fine. That's actually good.

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It's very important, you know, is a leading politician

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of his day ends up being a military leader as well.

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And he has some interesting things going on in the dialogue

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that is titled After him Nino.

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He has, first of all, some very strong preconceptions

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about what virtue is.

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So he thinks that for a man who is a free born citizen,

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it's to rule, it's to be strong in all the conventional ways

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that a male citizen ought to be for a woman, it's

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to be obedient to men in particular.

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And likewise, he thinks slavery incurs, thinks it's okay.

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And then he also thinks that slavery is

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incurs a different set of virtues, again,

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being obedient to men like him.

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So, you know, I think we can pretty quickly see some limits

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to his ideas, but he's not willing

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to look at the ways in which conventional views

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that our society has of what might be good

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or bad, may in fact be deeply limited.

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He is interested in Socrates,

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giving him quick answers to questions.

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He thinks, you know, I want a clever answer

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from you, Socrates.

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And Socrates refuses to give that.

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Um, you know, I think it's because Socrates is interested

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and actually understanding what's going on inside of me.

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Now, what is he about what's motivating him?

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And not just showing off his own cleverness Tomino,

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which Mino would've liked, you know?

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Um, and then the other thing about Mino is, you know, he,

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he just doesn't have any kind of intellectual humility

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to the point where later on in history,

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he betrays his own troops and,

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and an excursion to Persia where he, actually allies

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with the brother of the current ruler to try to overthrow

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that ruler, in a, a more complicated story.

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But essentially he, betrays his own troops.

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'cause he doesn't tell them why they're going there.

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He tells 'em a different reason,

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and he ends up being captured when the plot goes wrong

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and tortured to death.

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All his troops were put to death,

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and he was tortured to death.

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So the audience of, the dialogue, right,

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who's reading this many, many years later,

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would know Mino is really not a great guy, not Maria,

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literally means in Greek not having a passage.

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So it can mean something like you're sailing a ship

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and suddenly you come to a place

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where your ship can't move forward.

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That would probably be the most natural meaning of it.

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Um, and there's another possible meaning,

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which is I've been writing also on Socrates in the Thetas

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recently published something on that, on Socratic midwifery.

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And Porous means passage.

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So, and he's, he talks about himself as a midwife, right?

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Who helps deliver the baby.

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Um, the idea that that theta has about what knowledge

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Is. So

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you could also see Apria as something like, you know,

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being stuck in childbirth, a childbirth of ideas,

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and not being able to make one's way forward.

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And Socrates thinks it's actually very important to be able

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to be in that space of puzzlement, of not knowing,

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of, of maybe being stuck and,

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and not having a solution right away, right?

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Because we wanna be able to sort out,

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hopefully we can sort out at least some

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of those perplexities that we encounter,

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but we might need other people to do it.

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And I think, that we really see

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with Socrates a deeply dialogical way

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of thinking about the world.

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In other words, if I don't have the answers,

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I might actually need you to help me think through this.

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We see that in other dialogues, Plato's Republic

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for example, has Socrates encounter a whole bunch

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of different voices about what the nature of justice is.

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And they have to jointly build up

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what they think a city is like.

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They jointly build up what they think a soul is like.

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They jointly build up what justice is like.

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That may not be a perfect model in the end,

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but it's not really a solitary enterprise.

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So Apria helps, Apria helps us in that way.

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It's interesting 'cause people often didn't see it

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that way with Socrates.

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They often think about him as this masterful questioner.

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He's like breaking down someone else's ideas.

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But in fact, if you look really closely at a lot

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of these texts, Socrates will say things,

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like in the goias, he'll say, you know,

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I like nothing better than to have my own ideas overturned,

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or I'm learning from this process too.

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And people think he's just being ironic sometimes,

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like other people he's speaking to within the dialogue,

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other characters say,

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I'm just being ironic, Socrates, you do know.

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But I think sometimes he really, he means that,

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I think generally he means that quite genuinely, that he

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really always has to hold open the possibility

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that he doesn't really know.

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I think part of it. Um,

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so there's a generosity towards knowing that I need you

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to question my ideas, to help me become more rigorous

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and what I'm thinking about.

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And that I wanna do the same for you.

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And we might have to collaborate in thinking about something

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complicated like justice.

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I think there's also a different kind of generosity though,

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that comes from humility.

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You know, if I can learn to understand myself

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as a limited human being

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who will never know everything about all things,

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particularly in this, these areas of ethics and politics.

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But today, you know, we could apply that

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to the sciences too, right?

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We have specialists, but nobody knows everything about all

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things that then I can be more generous with you

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because I recognize that all human beings have this kind

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of in between state of seeking knowledge,

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but never mastering it.

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And just think about how much better politics would be today

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if we really thought other people on

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The other side of any issue had something

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meaningful to contribute.

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So I've been thinking about other concepts related to this.

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So I recently wrote an article that'll be forthcoming,

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eventually in environmental ethics

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about the nature of wonder.

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So wonder is a very different concept.

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It's one that's also found in Plato, in the Theus.

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He says, all philosophy begins in wonder.

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And it's a different way of being open to the fact

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that we don't know everything, you know, a much,

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more pleasant one on the whole, not always,

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but often in wonder we find ourselves open to the world

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and with the sense

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that it's gonna show me something about its beauty

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or goodness or teach me something that I don't know.

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So in the air of environmental ethics,

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that could mean something as simple as recognizing

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that crows are really intelligent birds.

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When I thought maybe birds were,

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you know, bird brained, right?

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That that smart turns out crows are very,

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very smart animals.

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And I might experience in

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that openness towards the natural world,

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something new that I learned.

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Or it could be just a general sense of wonder

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that this world is really worth protecting.

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It's really worth saving.

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And I can see that in the aesthetic dimensions of

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what I'm experiencing.

"The Importance of Acknowledging Ignorance: Socratic Insights into Knowledge, Ethics, and Human Existence"

00:00:00 - This idea is at the very heart of Greek philosophy. The Greek philosopher Socrates was already in the fifth century going around questioning his fellow citizens. He'd go to the gymnasium, he'd go to the agora, the marketplace and try to show other people that they didn't know what they thought they knew. So it's a concern that arises at the very origins of Greek thought, I would say. and he thought that to Novo own ignorance was important for at least three reasons. The first is an epistemic concern, a concern about knowledge, which is we ought to live in the pursuit of the truth because, if we don't know that we already lack knowledge, so we may not pursue it at all. We may think that, you know,
00:00:42 - and I don't need to learn anything more about this topic. a second and closely related concern is ethical. If I don't know what I think I know about ethical or political matters, then I might act on that lack of knowledge and do something quite damaging to my fellow citizens. and then a third reason is that it really gets us in touch with us, an existential concern, a concern about the very being of people, which is what does it mean to be human? And the reality is, is that to be a human being is to be someone who, doesn't know everything. We have models, we have paradigms, but we never fully grasp the full truth, and we have to somehow learn how to live in that space.
00:01:25 - the apology, Socrates says that he went around questioning his citizens and they tended to get angry with him. They didn't wanna be vulnerable to their own state of ignorance. They preferred to be confident in their sense that, you know, their knowledge is there. And they somehow felt that if they have knowledge, then they're okay as people or something like that. And he says that they deflected that sense of defensiveness towards him. So he is not living, you know, during a time of Freud or projections or any of that kind of language. He doesn't use that language, but he seems to be talking about something that's a bit akin to that. And Socrates remarkably says about himself
00:02:06 - We, I think, I've often thought in the past before I sort of thinking about this, more about Socrates, as you know, a little invulnerable, right? He questions people, but then, you know, they get mad at him, but he doesn't care. But he doesn't say that. He says he actually felt quite upset at the fact that they weren't willing to kind of undergo this process with him. whereas when he, he undergoes it too, you know, he is questioned. He, the Oracle Adelphi tells a friend of his Caron that no one is wiser than Socrates. And he says, when he hears that, he says, he is totally puzzled. He doesn't really understand how that can be true,
00:02:48 - as this great possessor of knowledge as this great mind. I was a great mind in many ways. You know, he seems to ask incredibly good questions, but that's not his self-perception. He's always focused, focused sula on what he doesn't know. And so I think it's helpful that, he shows us that it's okay to be in that state of puzzlement, to be, he calls it apre state of not being able to move forward. And that, that's fine. That's actually good. It's very important, you know, is a leading politician of his day ends up being a military leader as well. And he has some interesting things going on in the dialogue
00:03:28 - He has, first of all, some very strong preconceptions about what virtue is. So he thinks that for a man who is a free born citizen, it's to rule, it's to be strong in all the conventional ways that a male citizen ought to be for a woman, it's to be obedient to men in particular. And likewise, he thinks slavery incurs, thinks it's okay. And then he also thinks that slavery is incurs a different set of virtues, again, being obedient to men like him. So, you know, I think we can pretty quickly see some limits to his ideas, but he's not willing to look at the ways in which conventional views

The Dialogical Nature of Socratic Inquiry: Embracing Ignorance and Collaborative Understanding**

00:04:10 - or bad, may in fact be deeply limited. He is interested in Socrates, giving him quick answers to questions. He thinks, you know, I want a clever answer from you, Socrates. And Socrates refuses to give that. you know, I think it's because Socrates is interested and actually understanding what's going on inside of me. Now, what is he about what's motivating him? And not just showing off his own cleverness Tomino, which Mino would've liked, you know? and then the other thing about Mino is, you know, he, he just doesn't have any kind of intellectual humility to the point where later on in history,
00:04:50 - and an excursion to Persia where he, actually allies with the brother of the current ruler to try to overthrow that ruler, in a, a more complicated story. But essentially he, betrays his own troops. 'cause he doesn't tell them why they're going there. He tells 'em a different reason, and he ends up being captured when the plot goes wrong and tortured to death. All his troops were put to death, and he was tortured to death. So the audience of, the dialogue, right, who's reading this many, many years later, would know Mino is really not a great guy, not Maria, literally means in Greek not having a passage.
00:05:32 - and suddenly you come to a place where your ship can't move forward. That would probably be the most natural meaning of it. and there's another possible meaning, which is I've been writing also on Socrates in the Thetas recently published something on that, on Socratic midwifery. And Porous means passage. So, and he's, he talks about himself as a midwife, right? Who helps deliver the baby. the idea that that theta has about what knowledge Is. So you could also see Apria as something like, you know, being stuck in childbirth, a childbirth of ideas, and not being able to make one's way forward. And Socrates thinks it's actually very important to be able
00:06:15 - of, of maybe being stuck and, and not having a solution right away, right? Because we wanna be able to sort out, hopefully we can sort out at least some of those perplexities that we encounter, but we might need other people to do it. And I think, that we really see with Socrates a deeply dialogical way of thinking about the world. In other words, if I don't have the answers, I might actually need you to help me think through this. We see that in other dialogues, Plato's Republic for example, has Socrates encounter a whole bunch
00:06:55 - And they have to jointly build up what they think a city is like. They jointly build up what they think a soul is like. They jointly build up what justice is like. That may not be a perfect model in the end, but it's not really a solitary enterprise. So Apria helps, Apria helps us in that way. It's interesting 'cause people often didn't see it that way with Socrates. They often think about him as this masterful questioner. He's like breaking down someone else's ideas. But in fact, if you look really closely at a lot of these texts, Socrates will say things, like in the goias, he'll say, you know, I like nothing better than to have my own ideas overturned,
00:07:36 - And people think he's just being ironic sometimes, like other people he's speaking to within the dialogue, other characters say, I'm just being ironic, Socrates, you do know. But I think sometimes he really, he means that, I think generally he means that quite genuinely, that he really always has to hold open the possibility that he doesn't really know. I think part of it. so there's a generosity towards knowing that I need you to question my ideas, to help me become more rigorous and what I'm thinking about. And that I wanna do the same for you. And we might have to collaborate in thinking about something complicated like justice. I think there's also a different kind of generosity though,

"The Generosity of Understanding: Embracing Limitations and Cultivating Wonder in Knowledge"

00:08:16 - You know, if I can learn to understand myself as a limited human being who will never know everything about all things, particularly in this, these areas of ethics and politics. But today, you know, we could apply that to the sciences too, right? We have specialists, but nobody knows everything about all things that then I can be more generous with you because I recognize that all human beings have this kind of in between state of seeking knowledge, but never mastering it. And just think about how much better politics would be today if we really thought other people on
00:08:57 - meaningful to contribute. So I've been thinking about other concepts related to this. So I recently wrote an article that'll be forthcoming, eventually in environmental ethics about the nature of wonder. So wonder is a very different concept. It's one that's also found in Plato, in the Theus. He says, all philosophy begins in wonder. And it's a different way of being open to the fact that we don't know everything, you know, a much, more pleasant one on the whole, not always, but often in wonder we find ourselves open to the world and with the sense that it's gonna show me something about its beauty or goodness or teach me something that I don't know.
00:10:06 - that could mean something as simple as recognizing that crows are really intelligent birds. When I thought maybe birds were, you know, bird brained, right? That that smart turns out crows are very, very smart animals. And I might experience in that openness towards the natural world, something new that I learned. Or it could be just a general sense of wonder that this world is really worth protecting. It's really worth saving. And I can see that in the aesthetic dimensions of what I'm experiencing.

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