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Still going… sometimes in the dark”: Reflections of a woman of color educator

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Any endeavor to understand the unique needs and challenges of urban education must begin with a proper interrogation of what is meant by the term, urban. Pedro A. Noguera discusses how institutions such as schools and universities that reinforce racial hierarchies

Image courtesy of interviewee. August 13, 2024

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The conversation focuses on the role of education in addressing racial inequality, with Pedro discussing his motivation for researching this topic. He highlights that the United States is highly unequal, particularly in terms of race, and stresses the importance of education as a tool to tackle this inequality. He notes the existence of the achievement gap, which he argues is a symptom of broader societal issues like disparities in housing and income.

Pedro critiques the American education system, pointing out that funding is primarily sourced from local property taxes, resulting in disparities between wealthy and impoverished communities. He illustrates this with examples of schools in affluent areas versus those in poorer neighborhoods, emphasizing that conditions in schools serving predominantly low-income students are less favorable, with fewer resources and trained teachers.

He discusses the compounded challenges faced by students in urban environments, including trauma and food insecurity, which impact their learning. Pedro argues for a holistic approach to solving these issues, calling for equitable funding and support from various societal institutions, not just schools.

The conversation shifts to his current projects, including a film series named "Learning for a New World," which aims to explore educational approaches to global challenges. Pedro emphasizes that education, when properly supported, can help children from poor communities succeed and provide findings from schools that have successfully served these populations despite their challenges.

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Here are five key points from the video:

1. **Inequality in Education**: The speaker emphasizes that education is a crucial tool for addressing inequality in the United States, which is noted as one of the most unequal industrialized nations, primarily affected by racial disparities. The educational issues are viewed as symptoms of broader societal inequalities related to race, income, and opportunity.

2. **Interconnection of Social Issues**: The video highlights that educational disparities cannot be separated from other social issues such as housing, income, and health. To effectively address the achievement gap in education, one must also tackle these interconnected societal problems.

3. **Funding Inequities**: The funding model for schools in the United States, which relies heavily on local property taxes, perpetuates inequities. Wealthy communities can provide better resources for their schools, while poorer communities struggle with inadequate funding, affecting the quality of education.

4. **Role of Historical Convideo**: The speaker discusses how historical injustices, including slavery and systemic racism, contribute to ongoing disparities in education and socioeconomic status. Comparisons are made to Canada, where historical convideo has resulted in different societal approaches to supporting impoverished communities.

5. **Possibility for Change**: The existence of successful schools in underprivileged areas demonstrates that with the right support and resources, educational outcomes can improve significantly. The speaker advocates for recognizing and addressing the broader societal and funding issues to create equitable conditions for all students.

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Here are some key quotes from the video you that highlight the main ideas and themes discussed:

1. **On Education and Inequality:**
- "In the United States, um, education is one of the few, uh, tools we have available to address inequality generally in our country."
- "The United States is one of, if not the most unequal nation among industrialized nations in the world today."

2. **On Racial Inequality:**
- "And the inequality is, uh, profoundly racial in its nature."
- "Disproportionately poverty affects blacks, native Americans, indigenous people, and, um, Hispanics in America."

3. **On the Achievement Gap:**
- "The achievement gap is merely a manifestation of racial inequality."
- "You can't address the gaps in education unless you also address other gaps in opportunity."

4. **On Societal Problems and Education:**
- "It was a societal problem, and that you couldn't expect schools to solve the problem of racial disparities by themselves."
- "We blame poor people for being poor, rather than asking why is it?"

5. **On Community and Resources:**
- "If you go to schools in Beverly Hills or, uh, a very wealthy community, you find lovely facilities... If you go to school in Watts or Compton, historically, uh, much poorer communities, you find very bad schools."

6. **On Historical Convideo:**
- "I would say it's the history...and that history continues."
- "Why don't we say, understand that the roots of that really are lie in American history."

7. **On Funding and School Resources:**
- "Schools are funded on the basis of local property tax. That means that if you're in a wealthy community, there are far more resources to support your schools than if you're in a poor community."
- "If we were serious about doing it at a national level, we would address the funding problem."

8. **On Successful Schools and Children:**
- "There are schools in poor communities...that are serving them extremely well, that good outcomes...the problem is not the children."
- "What those schools prove is that when you get the conditions for teaching and learning right... outcomes can be much better."

9. **On Education as a Resource:**
- "Education can be not a panacea, but a resource that we can deploy to address many of the problems we face."

These quotes encapsulate the speaker's argument regarding the connection between education, racial inequality, and societal issues, and suggest a need for comprehensive funding and support systems to address these challenges.

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X-TIMESTAMP-MAP:LOCAL=00:00:00.000,MPEGTS=900000

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In the United States, education is one of the few,

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tools we have available

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to address inequality generally in our country.

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The United States is one of, if not the most unequal nation

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amongst industrialized nations in the world today.

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And the inequality is, profoundly racial.

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Um, in its nature.

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Uh, it's not to say there aren't,

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poor whites in America, 'cause there are millions.

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In fact, there are probably more poor whites than there are

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poor, people of color,

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but disproportionately poverty effects blacks,

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native Americans, indigenous people,

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and, Hispanics in America.

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Um, and, and so the racial quality, of inequality,

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which is a, a byproduct of history, a a, a byproduct of,

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of slavery, of, ongoing discrimination, means

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that if you're going to tackle that problem

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to create a more equitable society, you need to figure out

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how to educate people so they can have the means

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to improve their lives, and uplift their communities.

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And so that's why I've, I've chosen to focus on it.

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Um, we have, as a country since 2001,

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focused on racial disparities in student outcomes,

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with the, so-called Achievement Gap.

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But, I try to remind people the achievement gap is

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merely a manifestation of racial inequality.

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You can't address the gaps in education

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unless you also address other gaps in opportunity,

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gaps in housing and income

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and health that contribute to gaps in education.

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I have a mixed feeling about, on the one hand,

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I give the Bush administration credit

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for naming the problem, right?

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The problem was these disparities,

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where they were at fault is in not recognizing

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that the problem was not simply a school problem.

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It was a societal problem,

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and that you couldn't expect schools to solve the problem

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of racial disparities by themselves.

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Um, and no other country does that.

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Uh, you know, if you compare the United States of Canada,

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for example, which I often use, you know,

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Canada has strategies to ensure

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that children in poverty get additional help.

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That communities that are,

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more impoverished are receiving help and services.

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We don't have the similar policies in the United States.

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It's some of it is, a, a kind

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of deeply ingrained hostility towards black people,

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in particular, towards, native Americans.

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Again, grows out of the history.

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Um, but it's also a kind

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of a cultural phenomena in the United States.

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We, we blame poor people for being poor,

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rather than asking why is it?

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'cause most poor people in America work,

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they work every day, sometimes two or three jobs,

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but they, they're poor because they don't get paid enough,

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Not because they're not working hard,

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but there's another assumption at work that people,

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are poor because they're lazy, because they don't care.

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Um, and that, that,

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that those assumptions perpetuate the callous indifference.

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Um, so if you think about every city in the United States

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has a ghetto, a, a, a neighborhood that,

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is crime ridden, poverty, ridden,

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that is shunned.

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Um, but it's also the place where, people can get

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alcohol and guns and drugs.

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Um, and disproportionately those communities are

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black, though not always.

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Sometimes they're Hispanic,

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and in some cases they're even white.

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Um, but we accept that as normal.

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Uh, why, why do we accept that as normal?

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Why don't we say, understand that the roots of

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that really are lie in American history.

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I often give the example, of Detroit, Detroit major,

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metropolitan area in the United States, home

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to the auto industry.

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It's a dying city.

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Literally, if you go there, you will see vast tracks

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of abandoned houses, in

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what was once a great American city.

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Uh, it is disproportionately black right across the river,

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the Detroit River in Windsor, Ontario, a Canadian city.

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You'll find a thriving, stable black community

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that's also dependent on the auto industry.

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No ghettos. Why, why does Canada have this thriving,

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stable, healthy community right across from

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Detroit, a dying city?

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I would say it's the history. Uh, Windsor was a place

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that black people escaping slavery went to to live

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because they could be free from the racism

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and the violence of American society.

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And, and, and that history is, it continues.

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Uh, it Canada tends

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to be a much less racist society than the United States.

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First and foremost, it's operative at the level

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of funding the United States.

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Um, schools are funded on the basis of local property tax.

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That means that if you're in a wealthy community,

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there are far more resources

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to support your schools than if you're in a poor community.

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Again, why would you do it that way if you wanted tope,

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unless you wanna perpetuate inequities.

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So here in Los Angeles, if you go

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to schools in Beverly Hills or,

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a very wealthy community, you find lovely facilities,

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great public schools.

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If you go to school in Watts

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or Compton, historically, much poorer communities,

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you find very bad schools.

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Um, and that, that you could, so one level

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of explanation is the funding.

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You simply are not getting into similar resources.

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But on top of that,

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then there are conditions within schools,

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that also could be perpetuated by funding.

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If you have less money, you could hire,

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fewer highly qualified teachers, for example,

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your facilities aren't as good.

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Um, when you concentrate many poor children together,

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they come with other needs.

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They come with hunger, they come with,

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health issues.

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They come with unstable housing.

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So schools aren't just focusing on academics.

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They have to focus on those other needs that children have.

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And then on top of that, they often have learning challenges

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because they don't come from parents with a college degree

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who have a big library like I do.

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And, access to resources.

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They come from impoverished homes

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that can provide support their children.

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Uh, less so,

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but rather than, so schools have to try to compensate for

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what families aren't doing.

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Whereas again, you go to Beverly Hills

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more educated families with more resources

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who can invest more in their children.

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So the inequities are compounded in school,

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but also, again, by what's happening outside

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of school in urban areas.

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Um, we have a, a particular challenge

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of concentrated poverty, in the United States.

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Now, again, it's not uniform.

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Um, there are neighborhoods in Los Angeles where I live

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that are quite affluent.

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Um, and then there are others which are quite impoverished.

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Um, same is true in New York or Philadelphia

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or Boston, throughout America.

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But if you look at the public schools,

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they largely serve the poorest children.

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So in a, in the United States, we have public schools

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for the poor and private schools for the wealthy

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in most cities, with few exceptions.

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And what that means is that

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the schools are often overwhelmed, by responding

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to issues that are not purely educational.

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They are issues that accompany poverty. For example, trauma.

07:42.135 --> 07:43.275
Um, we know that children

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who are in poverty are exposed more violence

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or exposed to housing instability, often,

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don't have enough to eat food insecurity.

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Uh, all these things impact learning.

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Um, they children have more trouble concentrating.

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On top of that, the schools have fewer resources,

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less fewer trained well-trained teachers,

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if we were serious about doing it at a national level,

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we would address the funding problem.

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We would. Um, so there was more equity in

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the way we funded schools.

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We would not expect schools to solve poverty by themselves,

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but we would have other institutions

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to play a role in supporting

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impoverished communities and children.

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Um, and then we would, make sure that the schools had,

08:30.145 --> 08:33.755
were staffed by, well-prepared educators,

08:33.865 --> 08:36.155
with adequate resources to meet student needs.

08:36.945 --> 08:40.075
Here's the thing. We know there are schools

08:41.095 --> 08:44.735
in poor communities that,

08:45.515 --> 08:46.535
now there are not many,

08:46.635 --> 08:49.575
but there are enough that are serving them extremely well,

08:49.645 --> 08:50.855
that good, good outcomes,

08:51.555 --> 08:55.265
and the existence of those schools is the proof

08:55.455 --> 08:57.225
that the problem is not the children.

08:58.045 --> 09:00.415
Okay? And I have to, the reason why I have to say that is

09:00.415 --> 09:03.015
because the underlying assumption in America,

09:03.715 --> 09:05.775
and it may be even some of your listeners, is

09:05.775 --> 09:06.815
that the problem is the children.

09:06.925 --> 09:08.775
That the children are somehow deficient,

09:09.005 --> 09:11.975
that the children are, less capable.

09:12.755 --> 09:15.615
And what those schools prove is

09:15.615 --> 09:18.015
that when you get the conditions for teaching

09:18.015 --> 09:20.695
and learning, right, when you provide adequate support,

09:21.495 --> 09:24.865
then then even poverty can be compensated for,

09:24.965 --> 09:26.865
and outcomes can be much better.

09:26.885 --> 09:29.905
And there've been several studies documenting these schools.

09:30.085 --> 09:32.145
And I've, I've written some of this work myself.

09:32.485 --> 09:35.765
I'm actually working on a film series and,

09:35.905 --> 09:37.445
and the film series, it,

09:37.475 --> 09:38.925
it's called Learning for a New World.

09:39.695 --> 09:43.955
And the idea is to frame many, many of the problems

09:44.025 --> 09:46.915
that we experience in the world today can be framed

09:46.915 --> 09:48.075
as educational problems.

09:49.095 --> 09:51.265
That is, we have to learn how to deal

09:51.265 --> 09:53.585
with the problem, problem and school.

09:53.595 --> 09:55.665
There are schools around the world

09:55.895 --> 09:57.305
that are showing us how to do that.

09:57.845 --> 09:59.225
So for example, one

09:59.225 --> 10:01.305
of the schools we're gonna feature in the series

10:01.365 --> 10:02.545
is a school here in Los Angeles.

10:03.325 --> 10:06.345
It serves young women, who are teen mothers.

10:06.525 --> 10:09.345
So they had children while teenagers, many

10:09.345 --> 10:11.705
of whom have experienced trauma

10:12.165 --> 10:14.225
and ongoing mental health challenges,

10:15.065 --> 10:16.235
what the school is doing.

10:16.295 --> 10:19.515
And we've been working with them to train teachers on how

10:19.515 --> 10:22.915
to, to use mindfulness to support the children.

10:23.375 --> 10:26.955
And it's having a, a, a, a very impressive results

10:27.575 --> 10:30.275
in showing that with the right supports,

10:30.575 --> 10:31.715
you can help these students,

10:32.065 --> 10:35.235
even in very challenging circumstances, to

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not only get a good education,

10:37.925 --> 10:39.525
but to be in a position to help

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themselves and help their children.

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And we're gonna feature schools like that,

10:42.845 --> 10:44.485
that are working on issues like climate change

10:44.665 --> 10:48.405
and poverty in different parts of the world to show

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that education can be not a panacea,

10:52.765 --> 10:57.305
but a resource that we can deploy to address many

10:57.305 --> 10:58.225
of the problems we face Now.

"Confronting Racial Inequality in Education: A Call for Comprehensive Solutions in the United States"

00:00:00 - In the United States, education is one of the few, tools we have available to address inequality generally in our country. The United States is one of, if not the most unequal nation amongst industrialized nations in the world today. And the inequality is, profoundly racial. in its nature. it's not to say there aren't, poor whites in America, 'cause there are millions. In fact, there are probably more poor whites than there are poor, people of color, but disproportionately poverty effects blacks, native Americans, indigenous people,
00:00:42 - and, and so the racial quality, of inequality, which is a, a byproduct of history, a a, a byproduct of, of slavery, of, ongoing discrimination, means that if you're going to tackle that problem to create a more equitable society, you need to figure out how to educate people so they can have the means to improve their lives, and uplift their communities. And so that's why I've, I've chosen to focus on it. we have, as a country since 2001, focused on racial disparities in student outcomes, with the, so-called Achievement Gap.
00:01:25 - merely a manifestation of racial inequality. You can't address the gaps in education unless you also address other gaps in opportunity, gaps in housing and income and health that contribute to gaps in education. I have a mixed feeling about, on the one hand, I give the Bush administration credit for naming the problem, right? The problem was these disparities, where they were at fault is in not recognizing that the problem was not simply a school problem. It was a societal problem, and that you couldn't expect schools to solve the problem
00:02:06 - and no other country does that. you know, if you compare the United States of Canada, for example, which I often use, you know, Canada has strategies to ensure that children in poverty get additional help. That communities that are, more impoverished are receiving help and services. We don't have the similar policies in the United States. It's some of it is, a, a kind of deeply ingrained hostility towards black people, in particular, towards, native Americans. Again, grows out of the history. but it's also a kind of a cultural phenomena in the United States. We, we blame poor people for being poor,
00:02:50 - 'cause most poor people in America work, they work every day, sometimes two or three jobs, but they, they're poor because they don't get paid enough, Not because they're not working hard, but there's another assumption at work that people, are poor because they're lazy, because they don't care. and that, that, that those assumptions perpetuate the callous indifference. so if you think about every city in the United States has a ghetto, a, a, a neighborhood that, is crime ridden, poverty, ridden, that is shunned.
00:03:33 - alcohol and guns and drugs. and disproportionately those communities are black, though not always. Sometimes they're Hispanic, and in some cases they're even white. but we accept that as normal. why, why do we accept that as normal? Why don't we say, understand that the roots of that really are lie in American history. I often give the example, of Detroit, Detroit major, metropolitan area in the United States, home to the auto industry. It's a dying city. Literally, if you go there, you will see vast tracks of abandoned houses, in

"Exploring the Impact of Historical Inequities on Education and Community Stability in the U.S. and Canada"

00:04:12 - it is disproportionately black right across the river, the Detroit River in Windsor, Ontario, a Canadian city. You'll find a thriving, stable black community that's also dependent on the auto industry. No ghettos. Why, why does Canada have this thriving, stable, healthy community right across from Detroit, a dying city? I would say it's the history. Windsor was a place that black people escaping slavery went to to live because they could be free from the racism and the violence of American society.
00:04:54 - it Canada tends to be a much less racist society than the United States. First and foremost, it's operative at the level of funding the United States. schools are funded on the basis of local property tax. That means that if you're in a wealthy community, there are far more resources to support your schools than if you're in a poor community. Again, why would you do it that way if you wanted tope, unless you wanna perpetuate inequities. So here in Los Angeles, if you go to schools in Beverly Hills or, a very wealthy community, you find lovely facilities, great public schools. If you go to school in Watts or Compton, historically, much poorer communities,
00:05:35 - and that, that you could, so one level of explanation is the funding. You simply are not getting into similar resources. But on top of that, then there are conditions within schools, that also could be perpetuated by funding. If you have less money, you could hire, fewer highly qualified teachers, for example, your facilities aren't as good. when you concentrate many poor children together, they come with other needs. They come with hunger, they come with, health issues. They come with unstable housing. So schools aren't just focusing on academics. They have to focus on those other needs that children have.
00:06:17 - because they don't come from parents with a college degree who have a big library like I do. And, access to resources. They come from impoverished homes that can provide support their children. less so, but rather than, so schools have to try to compensate for what families aren't doing. Whereas again, you go to Beverly Hills more educated families with more resources who can invest more in their children. So the inequities are compounded in school, but also, again, by what's happening outside of school in urban areas. we have a, a particular challenge
00:06:58 - Now, again, it's not uniform. there are neighborhoods in Los Angeles where I live that are quite affluent. and then there are others which are quite impoverished. same is true in New York or Philadelphia or Boston, throughout America. But if you look at the public schools, they largely serve the poorest children. So in a, in the United States, we have public schools for the poor and private schools for the wealthy in most cities, with few exceptions. And what that means is that the schools are often overwhelmed, by responding
00:07:38 - They are issues that accompany poverty. For example, trauma. we know that children who are in poverty are exposed more violence or exposed to housing instability, often, don't have enough to eat food insecurity. all these things impact learning. they children have more trouble concentrating. On top of that, the schools have fewer resources, less fewer trained well-trained teachers, if we were serious about doing it at a national level, we would address the funding problem. We would. so there was more equity in the way we funded schools. We would not expect schools to solve poverty by themselves,

"Empowering Education: Addressing Inequality and Supporting Marginalized Communities"**

00:08:20 - to play a role in supporting impoverished communities and children. and then we would, make sure that the schools had, were staffed by, well-prepared educators, with adequate resources to meet student needs. Here's the thing. We know there are schools in poor communities that, now there are not many, but there are enough that are serving them extremely well, that good, good outcomes, and the existence of those schools is the proof that the problem is not the children. Okay? And I have to, the reason why I have to say that is
00:09:03 - and it may be even some of your listeners, is that the problem is the children. That the children are somehow deficient, that the children are, less capable. And what those schools prove is that when you get the conditions for teaching and learning, right, when you provide adequate support, then then even poverty can be compensated for, and outcomes can be much better. And there've been several studies documenting these schools. And I've, I've written some of this work myself. I'm actually working on a film series and, and the film series, it, it's called Learning for a New World. And the idea is to frame many, many of the problems
00:09:46 - as educational problems. That is, we have to learn how to deal with the problem, problem and school. There are schools around the world that are showing us how to do that. So for example, one of the schools we're gonna feature in the series is a school here in Los Angeles. It serves young women, who are teen mothers. So they had children while teenagers, many of whom have experienced trauma and ongoing mental health challenges, what the school is doing. And we've been working with them to train teachers on how to, to use mindfulness to support the children. And it's having a, a, a, a very impressive results
00:10:57 - you can help these students, even in very challenging circumstances, to not only get a good education, but to be in a position to help themselves and help their children. And we're gonna feature schools like that, that are working on issues like climate change and poverty in different parts of the world to show that education can be not a panacea, but a resource that we can deploy to address many of the problems we face Now.

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